[T3] ? Mystery of the Clacking Valves ?

Wed May 11 19:15:31 PDT 2011

I wanted to remove the inner springs on my Berg 1679, its running their
engle 110... and I was told no way no how!  They said You MUST have the dual
springs with any cam other than stock.  I sure would like to get them out of
there as they are pounding the seats into the heads slowly... every time I
adjust the valves they have no or little clearance.

If it was a Berg built motor, or a berg kit, and a non stock cam It should
have the dual springs in it, but that will be easy to verify by just
looking.  Single springs can run the aluminum pushrods EXCEPT... as far as I
know there are no cuttable aluminum push rods, so they will be the wrong
length for a non-stock setup like a 1776.  Even changing from stepped to
non-stepped heads or fly cut heads will require the geometry to be
changed... some will shim the rockers but the builders recommend changing
pushrod lengths.

Anyone else running a 110 with stock single springs?  Id love to go that
route if in fact the guys are Berg are full of ****.

Keith

I don't think those statements are exactly true.  I had a 1776cc that I ran
for several years that was completely stock with the exception of the larger
pistons/cylinders and carbs.  You can run an entirely stock valve train and
not all aftermarket cams require dual valve springs.  Case in point being
that my "refreshed" 1776 is running just a Engle 110 cam with single
springs.

To the original poster, it just sounds like either clearances weren't set
right on that valve, maybe the push rod was a just a tad too long compared
to the others, faulty push rod, or any number of other items.  How do the
lifters look where the push rods go?  Any wear there?

Joe P.
'69 Squareback

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> The only thing I might mention is that with a 1776 you most certainly have
> a
> non-stock cam in it, so you would also have dual valve springs that
require
> steel pushrods, if the originals were aluminum that would explain the
bend.
>
> Secondly, when the installed the new pushrods did they cut them to the
> exact
> same length as the ones that were in it?  If not that could wreak havoc
> with
> the valve train geometry and cause quick wear to the guides and seats in
an
> extreme case.  With a 1776, you wont be running stock geometry or stock
> length pushrods.
>
> Keith
>
>
> Top Notch Restorations
> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
> 65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
> 87 golf "Winterat"
> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of David
> Yaghoubian
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:13 PM
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: [T3] ? Mystery of the Clacking Valves ?
>
> If you've got one of those Sherlock Holmes pipes, spark it up... :)
>
> Keeping this as succinct as possible to start, my super clean,
> perfectly running 1776 (@~35K miles) developed a bad pushrod tube
> leak in the outside tube for the #3 cyl last week. It never skipped a
> beat that I noticed, but was spraying oil, so I had to get it fixed
> pronto since it's my daily driver. Not having time to do the job
> myself I took it to my local shop... highly trusted folks who have
> been working on VWs since the mid-70s and who have routinely done me
> and my square right over the past decade. What they found was that
> the pushrod in the leaking tube was bowed/bent (!) and had been
> rubbing on the inside of the tube, causing the leak. They pulled the
> engine and removed the head to see if there was any damage to the
> valve or seat that might have caused the pushrod to bend, but the
> head looked perfect. So they put the head back on with a new tube to
> replace the leaking one, installed a new set of pushrods and lash
> caps all around, adjusted all valves, drove it around, then adjusted
> the valves once again when it was cold. The mystery of the bent #3
> pushrod remained... I have it here as a souvenir to ponder.
>
> Soooo... I drive home, and then to work and back the next day (~30
> miles total) noticing that the idle keeps creeping up...eventually to
> around 1500rpm at idle. The valves sounded loud as hell when I went
> back to check the engine, and I could tell something was way off due
> to abnormal fumes/smell.  So I waited until the next morning until
> they were dead cold, and went to do a valve adjustment. I was shocked
> to find all of the valves more out of adjustment than I had ever seen
> on a VW engine.... I'm talking about  1/8/ to1/4 in. gaps...I don't
> have a gauge in the kit to span that canyon!!! The rocker arms were
> tight, and nothing looked broken/missing anywhere. So I called up the
> shop owner, who was about as surprised as I was to hear this, and
> didn't really have an explanation beyond that the rods had possibly
> shrunk or reseated somehow, but basically concluded he wasn't sure
> how that could happen. We decided I would finish doing the
> adjustment, and see what happened after some more driving.
>
> Sooooooo.... I did the valve adjustment all around (.004 as usual)
> and did another round trip to work on the freeway (~20 miles total).
> The next morning I check the valves dead cold, and am amazed to find
> that after my easy freeway commute they were all way out of
> adjustment again. The outside #1 valve was so far out of adjustment I
> had to use up almost all of the remaining thread on the adjustment
> screw to get it back to .004. The other valves weren't nearly as bad
> as this one, but were all at around .013, which is still insanely
> loose... after only a 20 mile drive! I called up the shop with the
> news and they said to definitely bring it back in asap so they could
> determine what the heck was going on.
>
> Which brings us to today. They pulled the new rods out (an EMPI set)
> and nothing looked bent/broken or out of the normal. They replaced
> the EMPI set with a new set of Scat rods, which rumor has it are
> superior steel than the EMPIs. (?) Before putting the new Scat rods
> in they used a tiny camera to look at the lifters, and aside from
> what was described as a stripe of what looked like rust on that
> outside #3 cyl, nothing looked out of the ordinary, and the engine
> oil is still clean-clean. They test drove it on the freeway today,
> and are going to do the valves again before I pick it up tomorrow
> morning to give it another shot.
>
> Hence, the mystery of the clacking valves. Does anyone have any
> explanation(s) for how the above could transpire? To start, I am
> stumped as to how the #3 rod was originally bent/bowed. More bizarre
> is the radical change in valve clearance/adjustment on all cyls, and
> especially the #1, which used up a full adjustment screw's worth of
> thread in less than 50 miles. Aside from the cam lobe getting ground
> down severely (which one would expect to see in the oil, no?) I can't
> for the life of me understand the physics/geometry behind this. Where
> did that ~1/2 inch on #1 disappear to?! Ultimately I'm going to pick
> it up tomorrow, drive it, and check the valves again (and again) but
> since this engine has thus far been 110% reliable and never seen any
> abuse/trauma I'm just very curious, and more than a bit concerned.
>
> Thanks to any and all who might be able to sleuth this and shed light!
>
> Dave Y.
> 68 Square
>
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