[T3] Alignment

William J catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Thu Dec 15 19:31:10 PST 2016


Well when you go in again for an alignment load what you normally carry let 
them check then un load and see if it makes a difference. Only way to know .

William
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Nohejl" <d.nohejl at gmail.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [T3] Alignment


>I wasn't aware there was a worry contest. What's the prize?
>
> William, you say: "An alignment means nothing when you have extra
> weight in the car because everything changes . It should be done with
> the driver in the car and anything else you usually carry , if not
> then it will be off."
>
> In my driving life, I've never had a shop suggest that I sit in the
> front seat while they align the car. My impression is that alignments
> are done with the car as close to typical driving conditions as
> possible but that the specs exist so that an alignment can remain
> viable under a variety of driving and load conditions. Otherwise, one
> would need an alignment before a trip, mid-trip as weight is shed, and
> then upon returning from a trip because the weight has gone back to
> "normal." Same would apply on a smaller scale with trips to the store,
> adding or subtracting kids, etc.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:12 PM, William J <catnine09 at dslextreme.com> 
> wrote:
>> I've been told here I worry so much , well I'm beat now by far.
>>
>> I've read all of these alignment posts and what stands out most to me is 
>> the
>> 7K trip you took with all the added cargo weight which could very well 
>> have
>> caused that tire to wear as it did. That trip was up and down hills and
>> turns with all the added weight which in itself places weight on 
>> different
>> tires and takes it off others.
>>
>> I have far more miles on my tires than you have and all original parts in
>> the rear and front other than the tie rod ends . I wore one set of rears
>> years ago both on the inside where the steel belts were showing and was 
>> told
>> when I got new tires one front original shock was bad RF so I replaced 
>> all
>> with gas shocks large white in the rear and small silver on the front and
>> never had a tire wear issue again .
>>
>> I have no idea if the shocks solved the problem of if was just crappy 
>> tires
>> . All I do recall is the rear tires were wider than the front because I
>> bought what was available local think they were 185 x15 and perhaps that 
>> was
>> the reason. Who knows . I check the tire pressure and one day came out of
>> work to find a flat then saw the steel belts showing .
>>
>> Personally I would take a look at the tires you have now to see how they 
>> are
>> wearing and write down the milage . An alignment means nothing when you 
>> have
>> extra weight in the car because everything changes . It should be done 
>> with
>> the driver in the car and anything else you usually carry , if not then 
>> it
>> will be off.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Nohejl" <d.nohejl at gmail.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Alignment
>>
>>
>>
>>> It took a little less than 40k miles for the tire to wear out on the 
>>> inner
>>> edge. What I don’t know is exactly when it started wearing.
>>>
>>> I got the tires rotated (front to back/back to front) and a 4 wheel
>>> alignment on July 1st of this year. Then we went on a cross-country 
>>> drive of
>>> more than 7k miles. I never noticed the tire wearing like that when it 
>>> was
>>> in the front, but it may have started then (unbeknownst to me as I didn’t
>>> even notice the tire was worn out until I had it off for unrelated 
>>> reasons)
>>> and then finished wearing in the back. Alternatively, it might not have
>>> started to wear badly until it was rotated to the back. I’ll have to 
>>> inspect
>>> my new tires this weekend and see if I notice any unusual wear.
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Daniel K. Du Vall <dduvall at 1peter4-10.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How long did it take to wear the tire out on the inner edge?
>>>>
>>>> I would still say that there is a fair amount of toe out on that side
>>>> assuming its only one side.
>>>>
>>>> Toe out causes a tire to scuff as it roles on the inner side of a tire
>>>> and toe in is the opposite.
>>>>
>>>> All our AC VW have a some amount of negative camber but if lowered, 
>>>> which
>>>> I assume not in your case, increases the amount of negative camber.
>>>>
>>>> The more toe in combined with negative camber would cause that sort of
>>>> wear in your picture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Far as the bushings assuming they are the OEM rubber ones Jim's right 
>>>> in
>>>> that its more than likely not the cause.
>>>>
>>>> The Red urethane ones would state some one has replaced them and 
>>>> doubtful
>>>> that they have worn enough to cause this also.
>>>>
>>>> The red ones should be visible without any disassembly but maybe a bit 
>>>> of
>>>> cleaning.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a link that show both types:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/subcategory/rear-suspension-bushings
>>>>
>>>> Air Cooled Volkswagen Rear Spring Plate Bushings From Mid
>>>> ...<http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/subcategory/rear-suspension-bushings>
>>>> www.mamotorworks.com
>>>> This Air Cooled VW Rubber Rear Spring Plate Bushing set is made of a 
>>>> soft
>>>> rubber like the OEM bushings used originally. 4 piece car set
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> 
>>>> on
>>>> behalf of Jim Adney <jadney at VWType3.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:21:57 PM
>>>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [T3] Alignment
>>>>
>>>> On 13 Dec 2016 at 19:04, Daniel Nohejl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Okay, so I found my notes from 2013 and it looks like 4 NOS spring
>>>>> plate bushings were installed in the summer of that year. Does the
>>>>> fact that one of those is squeaking mean anything at all? My
>>>>> impression is that the OEM rubber ones aren´t supposed to squeak. Of
>>>>> course NOS does include the word "old" in it so perhaps they were past
>>>>> their prime. In any case, that does mean that the diagonal arm
>>>>> bushings are original.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The spring plate bushings are intended to "squirm" internally. If
>>>> they slip, either inside or outside, they will wear and fail. The
>>>> squeak you're hearing could be from slipping, or it could be from
>>>> metal to metal contact somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> As Keith mentioned, the OE bushings are a real bear to install,
>>>> because they are so tight. I suspect that the polyurethane
>>>> replacements are made slightly smaller, so they will be easy to
>>>> install, but that makes them likely to slip and wear, so I'm
>>>> skeptical about their long term reliability.
>>>>
>>>> In 45 years, the ONLY diagonal arm bushings I've ever replaced were
>>>> on one side of a '71 squareback where someone had removed the pivot
>>>> bolt and neglected to put it back. Left unconstrained for years, the
>>>> bushings ran into something else and got distorted to the point where
>>>> a replacement pivot bolt would not go in. I had to remove the old
>>>> bushings and install new ones to restore the rear suspension
>>>> geometry. The owner admitted that this quieted down the ride
>>>> significantly, now that the diagonal arm was no longer banging around
>>>> back there.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, I doubt if there's any problem with your diagonal arm
>>>> bushings, assuming the pivot bolt is in place.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *******************************
>>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>> *******************************
>>>>
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