[T3] Question about D jet idle issues 73 T3

[Keith Park]

if they heads are fly cut then you have to go thru the whole deal
of setting up the compression ratio again, cc the heads, use
a spacer UNDER the cylinder to reduce deck height to make up for it,
best not to fly cut them if possible, just lap the cylinders in again.

in the end what matters is will it detonate, with a square this is easy to
tell, lift your engine lid and on a hot day pull a long hill on the highway
at 70 under heavy throttle, if its detonating you WILL hear it, no doubt
about that.  if its quiet then whatever gas your running is fine with 
the way the engine is set up.

Im running flat tops and stepped heads on my 71 and when its warm out
with a big load on a hill, i can hear some knocking and pinging
even with 89 on occasion, the gas here in NY is really crappy!

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback  "Hothe"
65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
93 RX7  "Redstur"
87 Golf  "Winterat"
 
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of William J
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:18 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Question about D jet idle issues 73 T3

Mike they do have one higher than 89 octane 90 or 91 if I recall. I'm not 
sure what stepped heads are. When I had the heads done they flycut the heads

, I think this was more to do with cylinder seating than anything else.

 The 72 engine I rebuilt and have in it now is a U prefix and the 73 that 
was the original in this car was an X . The Bentley mentions X was 7.3 -1 
and the U was 7.7 -1 compression ratio.

 In the back of my mind I seem to recall copper spacers they gave me to 
place between the heads and cylinders , it's been so long since 97 I just 
can't recall and I have never heard of such a thing so it probably just 
seats cylinder to head. I doubt copper would last very long. I know it was 
enough to get the heads on the copper rings were probably imagination.

 The main issue is this erratic miss and even going from 87 to 89 made no 
difference at all. It's really difficult to describe in words what this 
erratic miss is.

 I hope all can read this or I will post it to each reply I have.

 When I really noticed this was hearing it only when warm . I had to be at 
the back of the car. Before I unplugged the IAD temp sensor I would start 
the car AAR was open I had a fast idle cold at near 1200 RPM  after a few 
minutes it would drop to 900 RPM in park and drive . Now with the temp 
sensor unplugged cold it idles at 900 RPM then I back out of the garage and 
it is 1200 RPM then most times when hot it's 1300 RPM yet either way in 
drive it drops back to 900 RPM. Since I bought this car it's always been a 
higher cold RPM then drop to 900. I really don't get why with the temp 
sensor unplugged how the high idle can drop from 1300 to 900 and always 
settle in drive hot or cold at 900 RPM .

 Once I put this NOS MAP on I had everything connected , it fired right up 
and had the old fast idle and once the AAR closed so it was warm it dropped 
down to 900 RPM yet right there I could hear that erratic miss , not as 
pronounced as before and I could still see the tach lets say hang for a 
second in park then the tach would rise and hang , it sort of was not steady

is the best I can explain , so I pulled the temp sensor and all that stopped

, the RPM went up instantly and that none steady tach as I brought up the 
RPM was now steady , say I'm in park no load it's 1200 RPM idle I give it 
gas and the tach responds right with the throttle I can also feel the 
difference , if I'm at the back of the car and open the throttle by hand 
plugged in you can hear the unsteady RPM unplugged it's completely gone. 
Backing up a bit here ,with the new MAP temp sensor unplugged the warm RPM 
is still high still 1200 to 1300 RPM yet before when I had the old MAP it 
went to 900 in drive with the new MAP it drops to 750 RPM .

 I haven't driven it yet with the new MAP . . I know when cold the AAR open 
the HTS signals rich and you have extra air . Once it warms up and even 
before the ARR closes I've checked the HTS engine off and unplugged and find

it's below 100 OHM I've seen it at 90 OHM. With the old map I placed a 250 
OHM resister on the HTS and ran it , made no change.

 I haven't tried this with the new MAP . I assume it's running lean based on

the RPM rises and the erratic miss goes away and the throttle responds 
smoothly , this is all of course in park no load.and also the popping goes 
away.  When I either drive it and let off the gas sudden or bring up the 
RPM's in park a bit higher and let the throttle snap closed I hear the 
popping.

 If I had a vacuum leak it would be rich . I say this because the AAR does 
take time to fully close this would be a vacuum leak right? It's still 
pretty much open when this insane miss comes in .

 It does not act like an electrical connection . I've checked the TPS and it

functions proper . At most since I can't find the book I had the milage 
written down, when I rebuilt this engine it has 36,000 on it maybe 40,000.

 Would from what I stated does this sound lean ?

William


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Fisher" <fisherfarms at gmail.com>
To: "T3 List" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] Question about D jet idle issues 73 T3


> Tram has me running Premium only in my '69 FI/AT square, which is 89 
> octane
> in Oregon.
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Stock 73 should run 89 but if you dont have the stepped heads 92min.
>> I had to completely re-jet the carbbed cars and adjust the FI
>> on the FI cars to run with todays gas, big change in gas
>> here in NY several years ago and CA is probably worse.  RUnning the 
>> Ethanol
>> will require the FI to run richer, unplugging the IAD temp sensor is one
>> way
>> to do that, in Hollywood you dont need the cold start system as much so
>> this
>> is acceptable.
>> the other thing you can do is bump up the Fuel pressure to say, 33 or 
>> 34psi
>> and see how it runs.  But MAKE SURE everything else is exactly right 
>> first,
>> valve, timing etc or you can screw up a system that wasnt the problem in
>> the
>>
>> first place and be in even more of a hole.
>>
>> Make sure your not trying to run the E15, that stuff is NASTY NASTY!
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> 71 Squareback  "Hothe"
>> 65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
>> 93 RX7  "Redstur"
>> 87 Golf  "Winterat"
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:
>> type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of William J
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 7:47 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Question about D jet idle issues 73 T3
>>
>>  I live in Hollywood , CA . I was using 87 octane exxon then switched to
>> Shell 89 octane. It seemed to have a bit more power with 89 Shell yet
>> didn't
>>
>> change the idle issues. I think the ethonal is 10%
>>
>>  Off topic ,it does have oil leaks , a bit at a few push rod tube seals 
>> but
>> mostly on the left side might be old oil cooler seals . I wanted to clean
>> it
>>
>> all off so I can find where the leaks are. The runner hoses have oil on 
>> all
>> of them but that seems to be blowing up from the torque converter cooling
>> fins or just from air flow. It does not burn oil.
>>
>>  I would like to pull the runners and IAD and upper tin to replace at 
>> least
>> the runner hoses and cooler seals . I'm not sure if the intake gaskets 
>> can
>> be reused . I doubt they are cracked but the paper gaskets might need
>> replacing.. The old ones I tossed didn't know they would become so
>> difficult
>>
>> to locate these days. They never cracked . I used this brush on sealer 
>> Ford
>> used when I worked as a Tech for them for over 40 years. It was just a 
>> thin
>> sealer we used on gaskets. I only see runner hoses at one place now . 
>> Mine
>> ar the old German ones with the cloth covering.
>>
>>  I don't drive much and not long trips yet since this is my only car I
>> can't
>>
>> do a lot unless I can get it done in a few days.
>>
>>  William
>>
>> William
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 4:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Question about D jet idle issues 73 T3
>>
>>
>> > what gas are you running?  What part of the country, what elevation?
>> >
>> > Keith
>> >
>> >
>> > Topnotch Restorations
>> > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> > http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> > 71 Squareback  "Hothe"
>> > 65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
>> > 93 RX7  "Redstur"
>> > 87 Golf  "Winterat"
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> > On Behalf Of William J
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 5:54 PM
>> > To: type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> > Subject: [T3] Question about D jet idle issues 73 T3
>> >
>> > Has anyone run across issues with an unstable idle that clears up with
>> the
>> > IAD temp sensor is unplugged ? It only shows up when there is no load
>> auto
>> > trans in park engine warmed up . If I give it gas from 900 RPM idle 
>> > speed
>> > and watch the tach for lack of a better term it seems to stuggle until 
>> > it
>> > reaches 2000 RPM.
>> >
>> > I first noticed this when I opened the tail gate with it warm and 
>> > runing
>> I
>> > could hear an erratic miss out the exhaust , it's not one cylinder . 
>> > Also
>> > if
>> > I am driving say 30 MPH and let off the gas quick I hear a slight 
>> > popping
>> > out the exhaust.
>> >
>> > The only thing that seems to cure this is to unplug the IAD temp sensor

>> > .
>> > I
>> > assume it is running lean.
>> >
>> > It has all the proper E system parts and I have not found a vacuum leak
>> so
>> > far. With the IAD temp sensor connected and driving under load it seems
>> > fine
>> > other than the popping .
>> >
>> > It has the electric AAR which does close although it s eems to take
>> longer
>> > to close that  it used to. I just changed the MAP to a NOS Bosch #  0 
>> > 280
>> > 100 116. It holds vacuum and the resistence is within spec. Compared to
>> > the
>> > old one with the temp sensor plugged in it's better yet still stuggles
>> > with
>> > no load . My voltage is 14.3 at 1500 RPM. I don't have access to read 
>> > the
>> > actual mixture I am just going by the way it acts.
>> >
>> > William
>> >
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