[T3] Moaning in and out of gear

[William J]

I always thought Berg was more into beetle engines than type 3 .
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Nohejl" <d.nohejl at gmail.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] Moaning in and out of gear


No, it’s a stock motor. I didn’t specifically choose to have it welded……it 
just seems to be something that Berg does when balancing the fan and the 
rest of the rotating assembly and I didn’t really take note of the welding 
at the time. However, their advertised service for the fan is "Glass bead, 
weld hub, straighten & balance.” I guess one could ask “why have everything 
balanced on a stock motor” but of the 8 VW motors I’ve had, this is far and 
away the smoothest idling and smoothest driving one I’ve ever experienced. 
Plus, two motors ago…..it wasn’t balanced, was poorly assembled, and failed 
gruesomely after around 15k miles. I went with “overbuilt” rather than 
“underbuilt” this time around.

I suppose I can get my other fan balanced (but not welded) by someone and 
throw that on. Or else I can grind/cut away the tack welds on the fan I have 
in now? Or just live with the sound b/c it seems that only we can hear it 
and I hear it more than Jessica does. I guess if I can learn to tune out the 
ringing in my ears, I can learn tune out the fan/engine noise. I mean it 
didn’t even start bothering me until recently and this motor has been in 
since February and has 6k+ miles on it.

Daniel





> On Jun 27, 2016, at 9:44 PM, John Jaranson <john at carartbyjohn.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Daniel Nohejl wrote:
>
>> Yes, changed the muffler yesterday and it has no bearing on the sound. 
>> Are you sure you don’t hear anything? I have tinnitus in both hears and 
>> some moderate hearing loss and it’s as plain as day to me. Try earbuds or 
>> something?
>>
>> A bit more info……when standing behind the car, I can hear the noise when 
>> Jessica revs the motor to the rpm the noise emerges at. When I open the 
>> hatch, I hear it less, and when I open the engine cover I can barely hear 
>> it at all but I can feel vibration/pulsing in the fan housing in synch 
>> with the noise. So the full experience of the noise requires everything 
>> to be buttoned up so that it can resonate more fully under the cover and 
>> in the rear of the car.
>>
>> So it would seem to be the fan. It was welded and balanced. My 
>> understanding is that the fan is something of a harmonic balancer so 
>> perhaps the welding changes how it resonates? Not only were the 
>> individual blades welded but the center of the fan was tack welded to the 
>> larger outer fan. Am I on to something? If not the fan, perhaps the 
>> housing?
>
>
> The center of the fan and the outer fan are normally joined by a rubber 
> bushing so that it can act as a harmonic damper of sorts.  If you tack 
> welded the center to the outer you have taken away that feature of the fan 
> and it could lead to different or completely new resonances.  You might be 
> hearing on of the new natural frequencies of the welded fan that can't be 
> damped out by the rubber coupling.
>
> BTW, I don't really hear anything funny in the videos you posted.  I just 
> believe that you are hearing something and the welded fan is probably the 
> culprit.
>
> Why did you have it welded?  If this on a high revving stroker motor or 
> something?  With a stock motor, the fan should not need to be welded. 
> JIll and I just completed a 4000 mile round trip to the Invasion in 
> Arizona in both our Type 3s and regularly saw 75mph+ at about 3800 rpm or 
> more and did not have any issues with the stock, non-welded fan.  Never 
> even occurred to me to think about the fan.  Sometimes, if it ain't 
> broke....don't fix it.
>
> Later,
> John Jaranson
> www.carartbyjohn.com
>
>
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