[T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Tue Dec 5 14:10:12 PST 2017
I have the advance plate off and can see the weights . I see no lube at all
, just rust on the weights and their pivot points . The larger spring weight
seems to be slow to return .
Even if I had a working can the advance plate is so tight with old grease
it would never return.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> I connected the timing light and let it warm up and plugged the AAR line
> to the oil bath because it will not close fully yet enough where it does
> not affect the idle speed much at all .
> I looked through the gen belt cover and when idle was 950 the timing was
> at 7.5 BTDC if I slowed the idle down it sat at 5 BTDC.
> Now if I opened the throttle I could see it advance and even though the
> idle speed dropped to 950 the timing was still advanced pretty far past
> the 7.5 BTDC mark and very slowly would return to 5 BTDC . Took at least 2
> or 3 minutes without timing it to drop back to 5 BTDC .
> I know it used to drop right back to 5 BTDC right away and even making
> certain the throttle was fully closed . Now doing the same thing the
> advance is still far to much and it does not have a decell deal on the
> throttle juast the spring and it does return fully .
> I pulled the Dist and am now ready to remove the advance plate to see what
> could be going on .
> If I don't find anything hanging up what else could cause this. I checked
> for any loose tin and found nothing .
> When you close the throttle the timing should return to 5 BTDC right away
> shouldn't it?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 9:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 8:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>> On 4 Dec 2017 at 13:35, William J wrote:
>>>> Does it sound like the mechanical advance weights might be sticking ?
>>> I've never seen a distributor where it was the weights that were
>>> sticking. The
>>> thing that sticks is the relative motion between the upper and lower
>>> There's a felt pad in the top of the upper shaft that should get a drop
>>> of oil
>>> once a year. If you do this, it will never stick.
>> Yes I've oiled it before.
>>> There are 2 ways to test your mechanical advance:.
>>> One is simply with a timing light and the vacuum hose removed, so the
>>> advance that's active will be the centrifugal advance. Just watch the
>>> marks with the timing light as you speed up and slow down the engine. If
>>> marks move, your mechanical advance is working.
>> I tried to see it advance with a timing light and it was difficult to
>> tell since I couldn't get a good aim in that small hole , I could see it
>> was on the 5 dergee mark , didn't see it advance when I opened the
>>> The other way to check is to simply twist the rotor CW and see if you
>>> feel it turn against some spring pressure and then release it and watch
>>> see if it snaps smartly back. If it does, it's working.
>> I never really tried to twist the rotor clockwise with any force just
>> enough for the rotor to stop yet when I release it it moves back yet has
>> a bit of free play , meaning I can move it back a bit more than the
>> springs take it back.
>> The thing is this ping just came out of the blue , no warning . It never
>> did this until last friday and only after I drove 11 miles I stopped 3
>> places and the 4th place on the way home once in second gear I pushed it
>> a bit and heard the ping . Today I drove about a mile . Shut it down 3
>> times and after that one the way home when I felt it shift into 2nd and I
>> pushed it a bit it pinged twice yet not in a row . Most times I try it
>> again in 2nd and I hear no ping at all ,with the same fuel before this
>> it's a pretty distinct ping sound a good rattle that stops as soon as I
>> let of the gas .
>> I'm just guessing yet the way it just pings and then won't it sounds like
>> you have the timing at least 10 degrees more advanced than it should be
>> for the load on the engine .
>> I didn't drive it around a lot and I didn't hear it in 1st , it seemed to
>> need more of a load and stood out in second gear and I didn't have to
>> crack the throttle hard just a bit more than I would normally .
>> This distributor has never been apart and it was out of a 72 auto trans
>> had the dual advance can. . I have no idea how may miles it had when I
>> got it yet I do know I installed it in the original 73 X engine trying to
>> pass smog in 97 and it's been in this engine I rebuilt since then.
>> I looked down in it a few weeks ago just to see if the 2 springs were on
>> ,wanted to compare which spring heavy and light was on which adjust post
>> to the 73 AH I rebuilt . There is a large hole and a small hole on the
>> upper shaft where the spring posts are , the ones one would bend to set
>> the curve. I wanted to know if I placed then the same on the one I
>> rebuilt even though I have photo's of the AH before I took it apart . All
>> that really matters to me is they are one the post they were because if
>> not that would screw up the curve. Both posts are the same and this
>> wouldn't matter if I had someone setting the curve they are the
>> adjustment as you know.
>> I don't know what else it could be to cause it to ping then not all of a
>> sudden . I didn't do this by me just looking and turning the engine over
>> via gen nut to see the springs . I did move one spring just a tiny bit
>> because I wanted to see if it was on the post and it seemed sort of slack
>> yet on the post. The springs hook on the upper removeable part what they
>> call a cam and the other end hooks on the main shaft on the pivot pins
>> for the 2 weights . Isn't it possible that a weight could have warn on
>> it's pivot enough to bind then let loose? Or a fiber washer under one
>> cracked and left the building?
>> I'm open to any suggestions . I think I will just take a good look
>> tomarrow to see if I can see anything off in there . I may pull it and
>> remove the advance plate just to see if I can find any binding in the
>> advance. I really don't know where else to begin looking .
>>> The vacuum advance on the FI engines is just there to give a bit better
>>> mileage at cruising speeds. It does nothing at idle or at full throttle.
>>> won't notice any change in performance if it's not working.
>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
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