[T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .

William J catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Tue Dec 5 14:10:12 PST 2017


I have the advance plate off and can see the weights . I see no lube at all 
, just rust on the weights and their pivot points . The larger spring weight 
seems to be slow to return .

 Even if I had a working can the advance plate is so tight with old grease 
it would never return.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .


> I connected the timing light and let it warm up and plugged the AAR line 
> to the oil bath because it will not close fully yet enough where it does 
> not affect the idle speed much at all .
>
> I looked through the gen belt cover and when idle was 950 the timing was 
> at 7.5 BTDC if I slowed the idle down it sat at 5  BTDC.
>
> Now if I opened the throttle I could see it advance and even though the 
> idle speed dropped to 950 the timing was still advanced pretty far past 
> the 7.5 BTDC mark and very slowly would return to 5 BTDC . Took at least 2 
> or 3 minutes without timing it to drop back to 5 BTDC .
>
> I know it used to drop right back to 5 BTDC right away and even making 
> certain the throttle was fully closed . Now doing the same thing the 
> advance is still far to much and it does not have a decell deal on the 
> throttle juast the spring and it does return fully .
>
> I pulled the Dist and am now ready to remove the advance plate to see what 
> could be going on .
>
> If I don't find anything hanging up what else could cause this. I checked 
> for any loose tin and found nothing .
>
> When you close the throttle the timing should return to 5 BTDC right away 
> shouldn't it?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 9:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 8:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>>> On 4 Dec 2017 at 13:35, William J wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Does it sound like the mechanical advance weights might be sticking ?
>>>
>>> I've never seen a distributor where it was the weights that were 
>>> sticking. The
>>> thing that sticks is the relative motion between the upper and lower 
>>> shafts.
>>> There's a felt pad in the top of the upper shaft that should get a drop 
>>> of oil
>>> once a year. If you do this, it will never stick.
>>
>> Yes I've oiled it before.
>>>
>>> There are 2 ways to test your mechanical advance:.
>>>
>>> One is simply with a timing light and the vacuum hose removed, so the 
>>> only
>>> advance that's active will be the centrifugal advance. Just watch the 
>>> timing
>>> marks with the timing light as you speed up and slow down the engine. If 
>>> the
>>> marks move, your mechanical advance is working.
>>
>> I tried to see it advance with a timing light and it was difficult to 
>> tell since I couldn't get a good aim in that small hole , I could see it 
>> was on the 5 dergee mark , didn't see it advance when I opened the 
>> throttle.
>>>
>>> The other way to check is to simply twist the rotor CW and see if you 
>>> can
>>> feel it turn against some spring pressure and then release it and watch 
>>> to
>>> see if it snaps smartly back. If it does, it's working.
>>
>>  I never really tried to twist the rotor clockwise with any force just 
>> enough for the rotor to stop yet when I release it it moves back yet has 
>> a bit of free play , meaning I can move it back a bit more than the 
>> springs take it back.
>>
>>
>> The thing is this ping just came out of the blue , no warning . It never 
>> did this until last friday and only after I drove 11 miles I stopped 3 
>> places and the 4th place on the way home once in second gear I pushed it 
>> a bit and heard the ping . Today I drove about a mile . Shut it down 3 
>> times and after that one the way home when I felt it shift into 2nd and I 
>> pushed it a bit it pinged twice yet not in a row . Most times I try it 
>> again in 2nd and I hear no ping at all ,with the same fuel before this 
>> happened.
>>
>> it's a pretty distinct ping sound a good rattle that stops as soon as I 
>> let of the gas .
>>
>> I'm just guessing yet the way it just pings and then won't it sounds like 
>> you have the timing at least 10 degrees more advanced than it should be 
>> for the load on the engine .
>>
>> I didn't drive it around a lot and I didn't hear it in 1st , it seemed to 
>> need more of a load and stood out in second gear and I didn't have to 
>> crack the throttle hard just a bit more than I would normally .
>>
>> This distributor has never been apart and it was out of a 72 auto trans 
>> had the dual advance can. . I have no idea how may miles it had when I 
>> got it yet I do know I installed it in the original 73 X engine trying to 
>> pass smog in 97 and it's been in this engine I rebuilt since then.
>>
>> I looked down in it a few weeks ago just to see if the 2 springs were on 
>> ,wanted to compare which spring heavy and light was on which adjust post 
>> to the 73 AH I rebuilt . There is a large hole and a small hole on the 
>> upper shaft where the spring posts are , the ones one would bend to set 
>> the curve. I wanted to know if I placed then the same on the one I 
>> rebuilt even though I have photo's of the AH before I took it apart . All 
>> that really matters to me is they are one the post they were because if 
>> not that would screw up the curve. Both posts are the same and this 
>> wouldn't matter if I had someone setting the curve they are the 
>> adjustment as you know.
>>
>> I don't know what else it could be to cause it to ping then not all of a 
>> sudden . I didn't do this by me just looking and turning the engine over 
>> via gen nut to see the springs . I did move one spring just a tiny bit 
>> because I wanted to see if it was on the post and it seemed sort of slack 
>> yet on the post. The springs hook on the upper removeable part what they 
>> call a cam and the other end hooks on the main shaft on  the pivot pins 
>> for the 2 weights . Isn't it possible that a weight could have warn on 
>> it's pivot enough to bind then let loose? Or a fiber washer under one 
>> cracked and left the building?
>>
>> I'm open to any suggestions . I think I will just take a good look 
>> tomarrow to see if I can see anything off in there . I may pull it and 
>> remove the advance plate just to see if I can find any binding in the 
>> advance. I really don't know where else to begin  looking .
>>>
>>> The vacuum advance on the FI engines is just there to give a bit better 
>>> gas
>>> mileage at cruising speeds. It does nothing at idle or at full throttle. 
>>> You
>>> won't notice any change in performance if it's not working.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> *******************************
>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> *******************************
>>>
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>>
>>
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