[T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
William J
catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Tue Dec 12 12:56:35 PST 2017
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
> On 11 Dec 2017 at 12:55, William J wrote:
>
>> Also on Samba I'm being told that the injector seals of the kind that
>> are sold by most on-line and FLAPS only last 2 years before drying out
>> and cracking providing a leak . Mainly by one fellow who says you
>> should use green CIS viton O'ring type . Last ones I got from bus depot
>> and they looked just like the one VW sold like they were molded black
>> rubber , by molded they have a small ridge around the center.
>>
>> I replaced mine in 2009 and just looked and see no cracks . He claims
>> it's the fit around the injector tip that is the issue . What I see
>> once compressed they seal around the tip/ yellow plastic cover and the
>> base of the injector . I cannot rotate mine or move any injector one
>> bit. . He also said seals that sit unused are shot
>
> Probably about half of mine are still originals. I see no problem
> continuing to
> use them. I hate the idea of replacing that square cross section seal with
> a
> round o-ring. I'm concerned that we'd then be asking it to seal against
> the
> unmachined cast surface out at the edge of the machined recess.
>
> It's certainly possible that there are unreliable aftermarket parts.
> That's just
> another reason to keep using the OE stuff as long as it's good. I NEVER
> replace old parts with new just so they'll be new. There needs to be a
> good
> reason.
>
> BTW, Viton is great stuff: good chemical resistance and good high temp
> performance, but unusable at low temps, say below freezing. (Remember the
> Challenger Space Shuttle!) Not really a good choice in general, but it's
> important to understand that there are actually dozens of formulations of
> Viton, as well as hundreds or thousands of other kinds of elastomers.
>
>> I was also told you can't use or find thin enough gasket paper to
>> replace the gasket on both sides of each runner to intake plastic
>> spacer.
>
> The original paper wasn't anything special. It was very thin and it does
> not
> appear to be any kind of gasket material. I use regular typing/copy paper;
> it
> works just as well as the OE stuff did.
>
>> I also wanted to ask if you have 4 of the runner to IAD hoses and
>> maybe the injector tip seals ? and if so what would they cost. I can
>> find then on-line yet the shipping is a killer.
>
> I don't think I've ever had to replace the air runner sleeves, but
> sometimes, if
> you're rebuilding an engine that's been put together carelessly, or you've
> just
> realigned the runners, you have to snug the sleeves up with cable ties for
> a
> few years to give them a chance to assume the new shape.
The main reason for me wanting runner sleeves is because I listened to
someone years ago and placed hose clamps at both ends . They were aligned
proper yet I was told they can leak and this was their fix. Now that I've
done this they may not seal proper ever again.
Since I have to unplug the air temp sensor to get it to idle without the
miss it seems as if I may have a vacuum leak somewhere other than the AAR
not always closing plus since the oil cooler seals are old and may be
leaking I wanted to change these as well . To do this I need to remove the
left side runner.
I don't think the injector seals are leaking They look fine and I cannot
move the injectors or turn them . I'm not sure if the runner to intake
gaskets are drawing in air . When I replaced them in 97 when I rebuilt the
72 engine to use I used a type of Ford brown sealer that dries . I was thin
brush one sealer and I also used this on the runner sleeves . I used this on
the 73 intakes as well and the area on the heads was clean so the sealer
didn't adhear . It's not like permatex or contact cemtent . At Ford we used
it on intakes and water pumps and the lable is long gone.
My point of all this is it seems only a vacuum leak since everything else
is working as it should may be the reason unplugging the air temp sensor
clears this up for what ever reason and I don't know what I can spray on
runner sleeves or any other way to know if a vacuum leak is the cause . I
can't do this on the intakes and run the engine for obvious reasons . I've
heard of smoke machines don't have one and never used one . Many times it's
vacuum lines that cause vacuum leaks these are easy to change. I know you
said I should see if the runner to head intake nuts are tight . I feel if I
do have and find any leaks and repair them then just maybe this car will run
fine with the air temp sensor plugged in . We also talked about a vacuum
leak that may come and go and the front cover on the IAD
I'm told if I have an injector seal leak or intake and it runs well with
the air temp unplugged this is a sign of a leak and if it's at one or 2
cylinders then they run lean because of the added air and this unplugged
sensor richens them and at the same time causes the ones not leaking to run
richer . Also if I continue to allow any cylinder to run leak it may run hot
and perhaps burn a valve. When I changed the spark plugs in 2009 they all
looked the same and they only have a little over 2 k miles on then now. They
all looked sooty not white or oily.
I can't say this makes a lot of sense because it the others run richer I
would still have a idle issue. The only way this would be true is if one or
two are just slightly lean. When one uses a sniffer all it reads is RPM and
what ever is in the exhaust , it does not tell which cylinder is rich or if
all are from what I recall.
>
> For the injector tip seals, if you can squeeze one and it can collapse
> without
> cracking, it's still good. I reuse them many times.
>
> For the outer "seals", they last forever, unless you get a gas leak that
> soaks
> them. Then they expand and break the phenolic alignment blocks. The
> alignment blocks are the only part I've had to replace very often. The
> swollen
> outer seals will recover if you let them sit for a few months. The gas
> evaporates.
I have a spare set of those and I have the metal tubes on the car so you
cannot break them when tightened. Haven't leaked fuel on them .
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
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