[T3] cranks and clearances

Brion Sabbatino brionsab at msn.com
Sun Aug 16 19:44:32 PDT 2020


I follow the Vanagon threads. The Subaru motors use are not exactly bullet proof and bring their own issues to the table.
________________________________
From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> on behalf of Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 8:40:31 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] cranks and clearances

No, im not going to pull the engine out of the Subaru...  Yikes!

Besides, then I wouldnt be able to call it "stock"

:-)


Keith

Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
http://www.topnotchresto.com
71 Squareback  “Hothe”
65 Notchback  “El Baja Rojo”
93 RX7  “Redstur”
13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of bobsnotch at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 11:59 AM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] cranks and clearances




-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Sent: Sun, Aug 16, 2020 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [T3] cranks and clearances


>From what I understand this has been going on a lot longer than you think.
With the quality of t-4 engine parts getting harder to find, using multiple
sets
of parts (while increasing costs) has been the way to go. Like you said,
CHECK EVERYTHING. This is why Jake got out, quality engine parts were
drying up. It's hard to guarantee anything when you can't get good parts,
let
alone back it. It's also why so many are going with a Subaru engine, as the
quality of Japanese parts is much better than Chinese parts.
Bob 65 Notch S w/sunroof

Moral of the story is CHECK EVERYTHING, even stuff you've never checked
before and read the forums, there is always someone else that has been thru
the same thing and the builders will play games to get engines they have to
stand behind.  Ive heard Raby will mix and match bearing sets to get things
to his standards, but at $80 a pop, I cant do that!

Keith

Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
http://www.topnotchresto.com
71 Squareback  "Hothe"
65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
93 RX7  "Redstur"
13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of Brion Sabbatino
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 1:09 AM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] cranks and clearances

Keith,

Sorry for all the issues you have encountered. I have never seen anyone have
as many issues with Type 4 rebuild as you have experienced. I am following
the thread.
________________________________
From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> on
behalf of Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:40:34 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] cranks and clearances

I sent him a note,  thanks for the contact.

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
http://www.topnotchresto.com
71 Squareback  "Hothe"
65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
93 RX7  "Redstur"
13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of bobsnotch at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 4:40 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] cranks and clearances

Personally, I'd contact Steve (Clatter) on the Samba in the type 3 forum, as
he's really a type 4 engine guy with a lot of experience with type 4 engines
(has enough parts laying around to build a couple if needed in his engine
room). You wouldn't have anything to loose but some time, and getting a
second opinion from someone with experience never hurts. He even built a
"sweep the floor" engine (showed the build up on STF) that went into his bus
that he took the family on vacation with. He pointed out some things that
not many people know about when building it that made some sense, and some
of it could be thought of as off the wall. He does have a tendency to ramble
on at times, but that's how he thinks at times. While we might talk to
ourselves, he types it out in messages. He's also building a really nice,
very well executed 67 Fastback with a t-4 in it. Give him a shout, maybe he
can help.Bob 65 Notch w/sunroof



-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2020 9:00 pm
Subject: [T3] cranks and clearances

Ok, Im getting Cranky!



The crank that was in my 2056 was a 10 under, thats fine, but for some
reason despite my measuring .003 to .0035 main bearing clearances, it
started

to sieze when it got warmed up with the break in oil in there, what is
additionally interesting is that the sacrificial bearing shells didnt do
their work very well,

you can run your fingernail across the journals and feel some light scoring.



The crank for this build is my spare, its seen alot of use and despite
having 2 rod journals shells well into the copper the machine shop found it
in the middle of the

spec and just polished it, and it does, and did look good, except... the new
bearing shells on it are a bit loose.



These are old stock Repco bearings, and im finding between .0045 for the
split one to .005 for 1 and 3.  Now im measuring this with a mic and bore
gauge, using the mic's

measurement for journal size as the 0 point for the bore gauge, so it should
be accurate.  Bearings all torqued into the case.



SO...



im kinda porked... the wear limit is .006 or so, so I should be around .002
or 3, and the bearings are what the bearings are, the crank SHOULD be in
spec, if the shop measured it properly

and since they have better equipment that I do....

Should I have it taken down 10?  well.. they say its in spec NOW... and 10
under didnt do wonders for the hardness layer on the last crank and since 2L
Porsche cranks dont grow on trees... risk it

or run the .005 with the stock journals and stock hardness layer intact?
after the incident with the break in oil im inclined to keep things on the
loose side of ideal but past builds have had

oil pressure issues so its sensitive to that, although the previous build
had NO pressure issues.



What to do?  What are people finding the main bearing clearances to be out
there in stock size land?  they  are sending me a set of silverlines to try,
but they arent the quality of the Repco's.



Keith





Topnotch Restorations

topnotch at nycap.rr.com

http://www.topnotchresto.com

71 Squareback  "Hothe"
65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"

93 RX7  "Redstur"

13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"





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