[T3] 73 T-3 oil temp?

[William Jahn]

Nowadays if I had to I would just get a well built replacement engine ,
there are a few who make them with aluminum cases and some on Samba have
used them.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 11:34 PM William Jahn <willjahn975 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't hear any noise on startup. As far as the parts, I was able to
> locate all of the bearings and they were all in one box and were German and
> were exactly the same as the ones in the 72 engine I rebuilt. If I recall
> they came in a yellow box. not the new garbage I've read about for quite a
> few years now. It was a small one owner shop not far from where I live , he
> also had the oil pump and had a new camshaft also NOS I should have bought
> it yet it had a tighter fitting came gear , they have a number that matched
> the crank gear , I assumed they were matched due to case or perhaps gear
> variations. He said it would work yet in the end mine was fine and had just
> the proper amount of backlash. He also had a set of rods that were
> different from the original I beam stock ones . I took them to work. They
> were an alloy for an Audi in an I beam shape and a larger thicker crank end
> with 2 bolts that had a 12 point head , no nuts . The shop foreman at the
> Ford dealer I worked at that time  said they would work and were better ,
> he worked for Porsha and Audi . I didn't try them because I felt the crank
> end being so big may not clear the pistons. He had quite a lot of NOS parts
> . Wish I would have bought more as he was basically trying to sell all he
> had and close up shop and at a fair price, I did get 2 oil pumps from him
> so I have a brand new spare. He was almost out of bearings , he had one
> standard size set and a few over size for reground cranks, I also got a new
> FI head temp sensor and like a fool set it on the roof of my car and forgot
> , drove out of my garage and never found it. A Few years back  some company
> was making them and I got one yet even though it threaded in I could move
> it side to side so I didn't trust it. I just keep it in the car just in
> case.
>  Lots of the good NOS parts are gone , wish I bought more when I had the
> chance. Now all those small shops are long gone.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 5:12 PM Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Well if it doesn’t rumble when you start it up I wouldn’t worry about it,
>> I heard the occasional slight bearing noise on startup on my last engine
>> for maybe
>> The last 40K miles I put on it, oil pressure got lower with age but in
>> the end it died of a weak cylinder compression.
>>
>> Parts were better in the 90's but they were starting to go down hill.
>> EVERYTHING needs to be checked on assembly, otherwise it’s a crap shoot...
>> Never know what you have.  Believe me, I learned the hard way!
>>
>> Keith'
>>
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> http://www.topnotchresto.com
>> 71 Squareback  “Hothe”
>> 65 Notchback  “El Baja Rojo”
>> 93 RX7  “Redstur”
>> 13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> On
>> Behalf Of William Jahn
>> Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 1:55 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] 73 T-3 oil temp?
>>
>> No. When I rebuilt the engine in the car now I used a 72 case I had .
>> Long story short the engine that came in this car after driving it for 7
>> years one day on start up it developed a loud internal rattle , it still
>> ran well. I took the 72 engine apart and brought the case to work at Ford
>> when I was a tech they had a machine they used to clean auto transmissions
>> in. I had standard size bearings that still looked pretty good . I bought
>> new german bearings and lifters, checked the crank and cam journals and had
>> the heads done with new guides and whatever was needed bought new cylinder
>> kits
>> flushed out the oil cooler.   It took three months to afford all the new
>> parts and also a new oil pump. I built the case first then once I got the
>> cylinder kits and heads done. Put it all together. All the parts were
>> German.
>>
>>  I didn't know about installing bearings in the case and checking. All I
>> knew about in 1997 was reground cranks and oversized bearings and line
>> boring.
>>
>>  It's a mystery to me why the oil temps rose all of a sudden . It still
>> has good oil pressure , I've driven it in temps like this before and it
>> never gets more than 185F yet I never was stuck in traffic on such a hot
>> day for so long. I don't hear any noises like bearings or rod knock. It
>> sounds the same as it did before all of this and runs the same. I don't do
>> much driving , at most 350 miles a year since 2007.
>> I understand how an engine heats up more under a load than it will at
>> idle . The odd part is once I got moving again under load it cooled down
>> pretty fast. All this tells me is the engine fan was moving much more air.
>> I searched all over the internet trying to find anything related. All I
>> found were mostly beetle and van related issues on blocked air intakes and
>> non working air flaps. I also saw the temp charts you posted. I'm in no
>> position to do another rebuild and this car is my only mode of transport.
>> All I can do at this point is check a few things , change the oil and see
>> what happens.  I did find a lot of water cooled and air cooled engines
>> running hotter at idle standing in traffic. The air cooled were all
>> motorcycles. On a type 3 the only cooling is the fan and oil cooler and the
>> cooler also requires air flow to do its job. With the high ambient temps
>> sitting in traffic at idle to me seems worse than under a normal load
>> simply because the fan is barely moving any air.And the heat generated not
>> only by the other cars added to the high ambient add in the black top
>> pavement heat rising right up to the engine just sitting there absorbing it
>> all.
>>
>>  I never took the old case apart to see what the noise was. I thought it
>> might be the cooling fan so over the weekend I removed the fan and it was
>> loose and got a good one that didn't change a thing. In 91 drove to Vegas
>> it was 118 there and on the highway the oil temps hit over 260 F. I got
>> home and noticed the valve cover gaskets were leaking yet it went another 6
>> years before it started the noise and I never knew how many miles were on
>> that engine. Whoever owned it didn't take good care of it. The oil strainer
>> was clogged and the oil was like mud . I had the entire upper and lower tin
>> off, flushed the engine out  with mineral spirits to get what I could out
>> and to get it running well it needed all new fuel lines and vacuum lines.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 9:04 AM Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > At idle, your not producing any HP, so you have little heat load,
>> > engine is hottest producing HP and then fan speed RPM makes a
>> difference.
>> > My oil temp gauge was calibrated using a thermocouple I installed in
>> > the case when I rebuilt it, off the shelf thermometers can really be
>> > thrown in the Trash in many cases.
>> >
>> > Never looked at temp on the sump gauges because where I drive, that
>> > sensor would probably be ripped apart in short order under there,
>> > especially with a sump Added.
>> >  40wt is pretty thick, if your seeing an oil light at idle your
>> > bearings are worn or loose, were they fitted to the case when you
>> > built it?  Was the case checked for closure around The bearings fully
>> > torqued?  As ive learned as well, bearings these days are crap and you
>> > may have to mix and match to get good clearances...  and you need a
>> > bore gauge to do that, Unfortunately its no longer plug and play.
>> >
>> > Keith'
>> >
>> >
>> > Topnotch Restorations
>> > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> > http://www.topnotchresto.com
>> > 71 Squareback   Hothe
>> > 65 Notchback   El Baja Rojo
>> > 93 RX7   Redstur
>> > 13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> > On Behalf Of William Jahn
>> > Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 10:53 PM
>> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] 73 T-3 oil temp?
>> >
>> > I've been using SAE 40 Valvoline since it gets pretty hot here. I have
>> > the VDO temp sensor in the sump plate in place of the drain plug .
>> > I've read from a few places that installing one in the pressure relief
>> > port does a better job . The tests were done with a candy thermometer
>> > down the oil filler pipe and they read the same. I still realize these
>> > gauges and senders are not real accurate. The engine does not have
>> > more than 45k miles on it since I rebuilt it.
>> >
>> >  The only thing that makes sense to me is to be idle on a really hot
>> > day for a good hour. The cooling fan is not moving enough air simply
>> > because once the rpm's were up it cooled down pretty fast.
>> >
>> >  I've never had that happen before. Drove it today and it was still
>> > pretty hot 91F. When I started it the oil pressure was 50 PSI. I drove
>> > a 1/2 mile and by that time the oil temp was just maybe 130F and the
>> > pressure was 40 PSI . When the temp is at 180F the gauge will read 15
>> > to 20 PSI at idle. I drove to Costco 6 miles one way and the oil temp
>> > was a bit above 180F then on the way back there was a parade I didn't
>> > know about and just to get back to a highway I could get home on
>> > traffic was so backed up most of the time was spent sitting at idle
>> > and with two lanes of cars side by side bumper to bumper I'm sure the
>> > air temp was a good deal hotter than 94F in fact by that time once I
>> got home it was 97F.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 7:23 PM Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Quite a few varibles, what is your oil viscosity?  Oil light with
>> > > 10W30 is not as bad as with 25W50, Still, its an indication of a
>> > > worn engine, but not necessarily worn out.
>> > > The sender is also part of the equation, the good german ones come
>> > > on at 5PSI, The cheap ones don t come on till there is virtually no
>> > > pressure.
>> > >
>> > > When the engine was new, the idle with 30wt on a hot day at about
>> 12psi.
>> > >
>> > > 180 oil temp is cool
>> > > 220 is starting to get warm
>> > > 230 its getting warmer
>> > > 240 its time to back off a bit, that s hot, although it will
>> > > tolerate that for some time with good oil, but these are OIL temps,
>> > > not the temp of the block, or the cooler, which is what you get with
>> > > a sender screwed into anything..  its heat sunk on the block And is
>> > > 20-30 degree's cooler than the actual oil around it.
>> > >
>> > > Keith
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Topnotch Restorations
>> > > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> > > http://www.topnotchresto.com
>> > > 71 Squareback   Hothe
>> > > 65 Notchback   El Baja Rojo
>> > > 93 RX7   Redstur
>> > > 13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> > > <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> > > On Behalf Of William Jahn
>> > > Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 12:52 PM
>> > > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > > Subject: [T3] 73 T-3 oil temp?
>> > >
>> > > I just have VDO gauges oil pressure and oil temp. I know they are
>> > > not dead accurate . Yesterday I got stuck in traffic because of a
>> parade .
>> > > The oil temps driving to my destination never got over 180F . Yet on
>> > > the way back I was stuck in traffic barely moving for over an hour
>> > > and the oil temp read just under 220 F the oil light would go on at
>> > > idle ,
>> > it was 94 F air temp .
>> > > If I put the auto trans in neutral the oil light would go out . I
>> > > checked the oil level later and was down 1/2 quart . Once I was able
>> > > to start moving the oil temps dropped .
>> > >
>> > >  My question is since at idle the cooling fan is not moving much air
>> > > plus the 94 F was probably higher because of all the traffic other
>> > > cars generate heat.
>> > >
>> > >  I've never had this happen before being stuck just the engine
>> > > idling for so long. I've had this oil light on after a freeway run
>> > > on a hot day came to a stop the oil light would be on then as soon
>> > > as I hit the throttle it went out.
>> > >
>> > >  Is it just that the cooling fan at idle is running slow the reason
>> > > the oil temp would climb? Because the temps did drop back down to
>> > > about  190F once I was moving yet I didn't get to drive far enough
>> > > to cool it back down to
>> > > 180 F where it normally is. I would also place it neutral when this
>> > > happened to get not only the voltage to stay up it's 1,000 RPM in
>> > > neutral and 850 RPM in drive plus hoping the extra RPM would help
>> > > bring the temps down. It didn't, I had to be moving at least 35 MPH
>> > > and kept it in 2nd gear so the RPM's were about 2400 RPM.
>> > >
>> > > William
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