[T3] How's the trip going?

Keith Park topnotch at nycap.rr.com
Fri Jun 17 18:49:19 PDT 2022

Ive had seats sink in heads, valves tighten up over time... sometimes its
subtle seeing how far they have sunk but this is primarily a problem
With aftermarket heads and cheap castings, Berg warned of this especially
with dual valve springs like the Notch, which had problems for a while with
some sinking
Even with genuine VW heads.  With "Thumb them off" springs however, that is
less likely and I agree with Jim, unless your one of those people that is
constantly phone poking and has muscular thumbs, its sounds like the springs
are weak, but then you'd be floating the valves....

If you have more than 60 or 70K on those heads just put the new ones on,
your due anyway!  Don’t want to risk swallowing a valve and lots of 
Highway driving (like driving to invasions) and high heat (like crossing the
deserts) is hard on heads and they are pretty whipped after those miles.

I really miss the conversations that must be going on over dinner about
this...  you couldn’t be in a better spot to get it figured out and fixed!


Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
71 Squareback  “Hothe”
65 Notchback  “El Baja Rojo”
93 RX7  “Redstur”
13 Subaru Outback "Blendin"

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> On
Behalf Of john carartbyjohn.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 9:47 AM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] How's the trip going?

Good morning. We laid a pushrod across the end of the valves and they are
all the same height...on both heads. No anomalies there.

All of the head studs/nuts were tight.

I am starting to consider the fact that I just did the valve check in the
wrong order or something.  We can find no smoking gun in the heads or
otherwise that would explain what I experienced when checking the valves.

We are going to throw the heads back on, torque them, reinstall the rocker
assembly and pushrods and recheck the valve lash adjustment this morning.
Wish I had thought to do that before pulling it all apart.

I do have a nice new set of heads from Alex that I will be installing once
we figure out the issue with the valve train geometry. The spring pressure
comparison between the new head and the old is noticeable.  I was able to
compress the spring with my thumbs enough to pop the keepers out on the old
heads. Can barely move the new springs with full pressure from my palm.

I am also going to crack open the carbs and see if there is something there
that would explain the loss of power. Kind of grasping at straws at this

Will post more of what we find.

BTW, we did you cylinder head swap in Brian's garage during the Myrtle Creek

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
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From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> on
behalf of Jim Adney <jadney at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 6:27:01 AM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] How's the trip going?

Sounds like you've got the possibilities separated correctly. Tight valve
problems have to be in the head, including the valves. Can't be anything
else in the valve train, as wear there just makes for loose valves. That
includes the cam and the head studs.

Afterthought: If the head studs had loosened, allowing the jugs to move
around, they can dig into the case, which might make for tight valves. Seems
unlikely, but you should be able to see that easily, and you would have
noticed the loose head stud nuts.

Put a straightedge across the ends of the valves to see if they all end up
at the same level. I thought I remembered that Es and Is were slightly
different lengths, but Bentley shows both to be 112.00 mm OAL. See which
ones stick up a bit more, but all of this gets messed up by a typical valve
job. Still, you might learn something by comparing what you see at E3
compared to the other Es.

If your straightedge is long enough, you can check its clearance above the
valve cover sealing rim at each end, to see if it's tilted.

I heard that Alex was bringing a set of heads for you. That's probably your
best option at this point. Bring your old ones home for a post mortem later.


On 17 Jun 2022 at 7:13, john carartbyjohn.com wrote:

> We pulled Sophy's engine and tore it down to the point we could pull 
> the heads. No obvious cause of the 3 exhaust valves tightening to the 
> point I could not adjust them. Only causes of excessive valve 
> tightening the brain trust here could come up with was valve stretch,  
> wear of the seating surface on the valve,  valve seat wear, or the 
> valve seats pounding into the heads. Everything else would cause loose 
> valves like bent pushrods, pushrod end wear, cup wear on the sticker 
> arm or lifter,  etc. Everything looked good with only expected normal

Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA

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