<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top"><p dir="ltr">Hey, it is always nice to hear the dissenting opinion. If you only hear the good stuff you get blind to the bad stuff you should be looking out for. You just inspired me to keep an eye on things I never even considered. That I appreciate. </p>
<p dir="ltr">I still can't wait to have the looks of a square with the power of a type 4. I don't want to peel out, but I do want to keep up the hills. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Adam</p>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span>
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Keith Park <topnotch@nycap.rr.com>; <br>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span>
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<type3@vwtype3.org>; <br>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span>
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Re: [T3] Turn Key Type 3 1600 For Sale (Colorado) <br>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span>
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Tue, Feb 4, 2014 1:48:59 AM <br>
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<td valign="top"><br clear="none">These statements confuse me a bit. I have never heard anyone complain about<br clear="none">the conversion. I have only ever heard praises. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">How many people have done this and instrumented the engine properly? I Built<br clear="none">a Raby engineered engine and he had NO other Squareback or Fastback<br clear="none">customers at the time, they will run and drive seemingly well with oil at<br clear="none">245 but how long do you think that will last?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I already have one part of it covered; 2.0 or bigger. The engine I am<br clear="none">sourcing is a 1.8 bottom end with a 2.0 top end. Builders like the 1.8<br clear="none">bottom because it is more robust. And the 2.0 top gives it the power it<br clear="none">needs. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">This is only true if your running the 2L heads (3
bolt) or the repro's that<br clear="none">may be on the market these days from LN engineering.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">As far as cooling, you are the ONLY person I have ever heard say that they<br clear="none">could not get one cooled. What did you do to get cooling on yours?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I worked with Jake exhaustively and tried every mixture possible but on the<br clear="none">highway I was running 245 oil temps, Heads were cool but not enough air flow<br clear="none">for the oil. The problem is that the T3 is a 2 stage fan, meant to work<br clear="none">with no pressure from the intake, the T4 is a squirrel cage single stage,<br clear="none">meant to work with forced flow on the highway.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The bellows conversion that I am using has worked for a few different<br clear="none">people. It allows the type 4 to cool just like a type 3. People over at the<br clear="none">shop talk forums sing
the praises of the type 4 in a Square. Nate himself<br clear="none">stated in his build thread:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">"Engine temps below 60mph seem to hover around 325-350F CHT and around<br clear="none">190-200F oil temp. Above at 70-80+ and in hard driving it can push 350-400F<br clear="none">CHT and 205-225F oil temp. "<br clear="none"><br clear="none">At 70 I was running 245 (Calibrated) on the highway with a 2056 mild build,<br clear="none">no matter what I did with the mixture or exhaust system. In WHAT ABIENT<br clear="none">temps were his numbers measured? WHERE were they measured? HOW was the<br clear="none">gauge calibrated? All things that need to be documented. 225 Is too high<br clear="none">on a cool day on the highway, just think what will happen when you cross the<br clear="none">desert and its 110F out? 400F heads are too hot on the highway, 425 is where<br clear="none">things start to go bad fast, again,
what ambient temp were these measured?<br clear="none">325 is where I was running.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">That is a pretty nice set of numbers if you ask me.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">As far as an "enormous amount of work", all you have to do is the bellows<br clear="none">modification, modify a bus mustache bar to fit in the type 3 hanger or<br clear="none">modify the hanger to work with a bus mustache bar, cut down some manifolds<br clear="none">to make the Dellorto's fit under the lid, mount up some bus heater boxes and<br clear="none">exhaust and swap to the correct type 4 flex plate. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Don’t forget the charging system mod for the alternator, the modifications<br clear="none">to get the throttle cable to work properly, the wiring mods, getting the<br clear="none">stock Bus Tin to fit (it barely does)and the right combo of tin, SO much<br clear="none">fiddling around!<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">I may have cut a lot of the work out because I have an automatic in my<br clear="none">Squareback. Most of the complaints I have seen is getting the right clutch<br clear="none">and pressure plate to work between type 3 standards and type 4 engines. All<br clear="none">I have to do is get a type 4 flex plate. It is a direct bolt in because of<br clear="none">the fact that type 3 and 4 used the same torque converter and automatic<br clear="none">transmission.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">This may be true, the stock IRS tranny wont take the torque, I went with a<br clear="none">built freeway flyer. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">I am also lucky in the fact that I work for a manufacturing company that is<br clear="none">proficient in welding and fabricating. This way I can take advantage of<br clear="none">those with the skills I don't possess at a fraction of the cost. Always nice<br clear="none">when you have
laser cutting, tig and mig welding and a full array of<br clear="none">equipment to help you along the way.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">This is a HUGE help.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I do have a few things to figure out still. I have to get the alternator<br clear="none">wiring sorted out with a Type 2 voltage regulator. I have to decided on<br clear="none">mechanical or electric fuel pump. I am also still on the fence as to what<br clear="none">distributor I want to run. It is nice that I have plenty of time to figure<br clear="none">this all out. I am also looking forward to having something that looks stock<br clear="none">from the outside and is anything but stock under the hood. And not having to<br clear="none">push it up the mountain passes will be nice too. ;)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">For me, it wasn’t worth it! my gas mileage also went into the toilet and<br clear="none">the gas I needed to run was 92 octane. I may
still put the 2056 back in<br clear="none">there WITH AN OIL COOLER as I have so much money tied up in it, and the hard<br clear="none">work is done, its 11hrs to convert back (including tranny)but if we go over<br clear="none">$4 a gallon again, Ill probably rebuild the T3. Read thru the Aircooled<br clear="none">Technology site, Jakes technical articles and also check out LN<br clear="none">engineering... lots of stuff to know to prevent disasters. T4 engines have<br clear="none">lots of good things about them and lots of problems too, the problem is that<br clear="none">the problems are much more expensive with the T4. Keep in mind too, I want<br clear="none">an engine that will go in there and last 150Kmi or more, with only valve<br clear="none">jobs needed. I put a lot of miles on my car, mostly highway, and have heavy<br clear="none">loads and things to tow. The T3 engine will do that, albeit slower but much<br clear="none">cheaper. The T4
will too but only if its built properly and you cant get<br clear="none">many of the quality parts you need anymore at any price. The new cam and<br clear="none">lifters cost me $500 alone <br clear="none">For the T4!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sorry... bringing back headaches of the past.....<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Keith<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Adam<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Monday, February 3, 2014 5:19 PM, Keith Park <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:topnotch@nycap.rr.com" href="javascript:return">topnotch@nycap.rr.com</a>><br clear="none">wrote:<br clear="none"> <br clear="none">Take it from my personal experience, don’t even BOTHER doing a T4 conversion<br clear="none">without going to a 2L or bigger, its an ENORMOUS amount of work and a HUGE<br clear="none">Increase in cost for any build or maintenance, its VERY hard to get some T4<br
clear="none">parts.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">It’s a huge job just getting the T4 motor all fitted in there!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Ive got a 2056 sitting in my garage because I converted back to the T3 5<br clear="none">years ago... I may try it again but I would never go down this road from<br clear="none">that start again... and T4 engines will not pull enough cooling air thru<br clear="none">the T3 intake system on the Squares and Fasty's.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Keith<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Top Notch Restorations<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:topnotch@nycap.rr.com" href="javascript:return">topnotch@nycap.rr.com</a> <br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm" target="_blank">http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm</a><br clear="none">71 Squareback "Hothe"<br clear="none">65 Notchback "El Baja
Rojo"<br clear="none">65 Squareback "Eggcrate"<br clear="none">87 golf "Winterat"<br clear="none">93 RX7 "Redstur"<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">From: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org" href="javascript:return">type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a><br clear="none">[mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org" href="javascript:return">type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a>] On Behalf Of Adam<br clear="none">Douglass<br clear="none">Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 3:52 AM<br clear="none">To: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="javascript:return">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br clear="none">Subject: [T3] Turn Key Type 3 1600 For Sale (Colorado)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">After considering a full FI system for my Squareback,
and realizing that I<br clear="none">not longer had the right heads, I have decided to part with the engine. I am<br clear="none">in the process of purchasing a 1.8, 914, type 4 to put in its place.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Because of this I will be selling the engine in my car compete minus the fan<br clear="none">shroud. I will need the shroud for the type 4 conversion.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">If you are interested, please follow the link to my ad on The Samba. All<br clear="none">information and pictures are in the ad. I will have youTube videos uploaded<br clear="none">later this afternoon of cold start and idle. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1593011" target="_blank">http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1593011</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Adam<br clear="none">-------------- next part --------------<br
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