<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3010" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3350">Are you saying the rear torsion bars themselves are different between the square and the fasty? Or that the indexing was different? </span>I would have no issue swapping out the rear torsion bars between the two rear-ends to keep the fasty bars with the fasty body.And reindexing is just something I would be doing in any case to get the rear ride-height where I want it ... near stock.</div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985">Also, isn't there a Z-bar above the tranny in the square that acts as a "helper" spring when there is a load in the back? I would not expect to find that in the other body styles but I don't know that first hand.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985" dir="ltr">Pretty sure I don't agree wrt the torque tube in the swing-axle cars though. The axis of rotation from torque is the rear axle itself and there's plenty of distance from there to the rear of the fanshroud. Nice moment arm there. If the donut is a loose fit at rest it will still bear load as soon as the frame-horns flex a little. I actually shimmed mine so there is a slight preload.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985">But the automatic transmission has the potential to be a huge problem, particularly if it doesn't have a good VM. If so the car becomes something I'm stuck with. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985">OK, I've talked myself out of it. ;-)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2985"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2981"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_2980">Max Welton<br>http://www.maxwelton2k.net/</div></div><br> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3006"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3005"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3007"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3009"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3008"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Jim Adney <jadney@vwtype3.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> type3@vwtype3.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 28, 2015 10:53 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [T3] Automatic to Manual?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1430285707404_3004"><br>Max,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I THINK, but I'm not sure, that it would work to swap the complete <br clear="none">rear subframe, as long as both cars are squares, because fastys got <br clear="none">slightly different torsion bar settings.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Personally, I prefer the IRS rear setup, becauses it makes it SO much <br clear="none">easier to get the tranny in or out. The moustache bar on the rear of <br clear="none">the engine also gives much better service than the mounts on the rear <br clear="none">of the tranny on the swing axle cars. I suspect this is simply <br clear="none">because of the much wider stance that the rear crossbar gives.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I don't think that little handle at the RR of the fan housing <br clear="none">actually serves any purpose at all, even in the swing axle cars where <br clear="none">there's a socket for it. It's just too close to the axis of the <br clear="none">engine, and the support it gets from the body is too loose to be <br clear="none">effective. Frankly, I think that handle is there to assist in guiding <br clear="none">the engine/tranny into the car at the factory.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The AT works well. If you still have FI, the vac modulator that's <br clear="none">there should work well with your engine. Otherwise, you're looking <br clear="none">for a VM that no one has, or trying to adjust a US one to work <br clear="none">acceptably.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have rear mount crossbars if you need one. I can also modify them <br clear="none">to work with larger, and full flow filter equipped, oil pumps, if <br clear="none">that's what you have. Note also that the 3 bolts that attach the <br clear="none">crossbar to the engine are very special bolts for that location only.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 29 Apr 2015 at 1:20, Max Welton wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Thanks Jim.<br clear="none">> The car I was looking at has no engine. For me that is perfect, since I no longer trust any engine I didn't (re)build myself. The last thing I need is a bigger stash of engine parts.<br clear="none">> But it also makes the transmission a completely unverifiable unknown. Which is a shame because my 1776 (with it's stock torque-profile, FI intake manifolds and TB) should work really well with an automatic.<br clear="none">> My approach to the engine and rear suspension would be to just replace the entire IRS/Automatic subframe with the swing-axle setup from my 68. But I suspect the the 72's body does not have a support the swing-axle torque tube on the top of my fan-shroud. That would be a problem.<br clear="none">> If I was to stay IRS, supporting my engine would be no big deal. I used a universal case so there are bosses for the mustache bar.<br clear="none">> But the clutch-cable tube gives me pause. I would be perfectly happy to go with the automatic. My wife could drive it. ;-) But it's a long way to drive for an untestable transmission.<br clear="none">> Thanks!<br clear="none">> Max Welton<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="http://www.maxwelton2k.net/" target="_blank">http://www.maxwelton2k.net/</a><br clear="none">> From: Jim Adney <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br clear="none">> To: Max Welton <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:max_welton_2k@yahoo.com" href="mailto:max_welton_2k@yahoo.com">max_welton_2k@yahoo.com</a>> <br clear="none">> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:33 AM<br clear="none">> Subject: Re: [T3] Automatic to Manual?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On 27 Apr 2015 at 21:43, Max Welton wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> > So I'm watching a 72 project one state away. It is an automatic. Since<br clear="none">> > I have a nicely sorted stand transmission drivetrain in my rusty 68,<br clear="none">> > my interest would be along the lines of fitting my drive-train into<br clear="none">> > the 72. What would I be getting myself into? If I go into this the 68<br clear="none">> > would become the donor.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> The problem with the AT to MT conversion is that there is no tube in <br clear="none">> the AT pan for the MT clutch cable. Installing one is conceivable, <br clear="none">> but likely to be more trouble than it is worth. The '68 tranny is <br clear="none">> also swing axle while the '72 is IRS, so this would require changing <br clear="none">> the '68 tranny to IRS. I THINK that's possible, but, again, that's a <br clear="none">> challenge. You would then need the proper MT IRS axle shafts, which <br clear="none">> happen to be different from the AT axle shafts.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Finally, if you were planning to use the '68 engine, it won't have <br clear="none">> the rear support bar (moustache bar) that is required for the rear <br clear="none">> engine mount in the '72. A very few late '68 cases will have <br clear="none">> unthreaded bosses for that bar, but most won't. Even if yours does, <br clear="none">> it will require a lot of work to get that done. [There ARE adaptor <br clear="none">> plates to mount that bar off the oil pump studs, but I strongly <br clear="none">> recommend against doing that. It's just more stress on the oil pump <br clear="none">> than you want.]<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> All that said, it's worth noting that the Type 3 AT trannys have been <br clear="none">> extremely reliable. I have a couple of them. Sure, I wish they were <br clear="none">> MTs, but they work well and have given me no problems.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> -- <br clear="none">> *******************************<br clear="none">> Jim Adney, <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br clear="none">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br clear="none">> *******************************<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> -----<br clear="none">> No virus found in this message.<br clear="none">> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br clear="none">> Version: 2015.0.5941 / Virus Database: 4339/9652 - Release Date: 04/28/15<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yqt5980111686" id="yqtfd00120"><br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">*******************************<br clear="none">Jim Adney, <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br clear="none">Madison, Wisconsin, USA</div><br clear="none">*******************************<br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">VWType3.Org mailing list - <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br clear="none">To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org" target="_blank">http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org</a><br clear="none">If you need more help, contact: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>