<div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">My wife has had her '11 JSW TDI w DSG "fixed" for about 4 weeks now. At 1st she said she said it felt a little "neutered" on the way home from the dealer, kind of weaker off the line, but after a couple days she said it drives damn near the same. I've drove it 3 or 4 times and it feels practically the exact same to me too. mpg is down about 1-2 mpgs to about 38-39 avg.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Still waiting word on if a fix will ever be ready for my tdi, '12 passat 6spd, the only tdi's without a fix are the manual '12-'14 passats. :(</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">the additional 48 mo, 4 year warranty is the main reason we went the fix route.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">good luck Jim</span></div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:40:33 -0500</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">From: "Jim Adney" <</span><a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" style="font-size:12.8px">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">To: </span><a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" style="font-size:12.8px">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Message-ID: <</span><a href="mailto:59C81841.27556.3CCAA441@jadney.vwtype3.org" style="font-size:12.8px">59C81841.27556.3CCAA441@<wbr>jadney.vwtype3.org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">On 24 Sep 2017 at 19:20, Daniel K. Du Vall wrote:</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> So Jim which did you go with on your TDI?</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I haven't done anything yet. I was going to sell it back, but the "fix" sounds</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">so appealing that I'm tempted to get that done. I plan to wait to hear more</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">about people's experience with the fix before commiting.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">It's a great car, with terrific fuel mileage. If the early reports are accurate,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">that there's only a small decrease in fuel mileage, I'll go with the "fix." So far</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">it sounds reasonable.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">--</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">******************************</span><wbr style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">*</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Jim Adney, </span><a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" style="font-size:12.8px">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Madison, Wisconsin, USA</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">******************************</span><wbr style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">*</span><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 4:45 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a> mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Defeat Device? (Jim Adney)<br>
2. Re: Defeat Device? (Daniel K. Du Vall)<br>
3. Re: Defeat Device? (William J)<br>
4. Re: Defeat Device? (Jim Adney)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 08:23:13 -0500<br>
From: "Jim Adney" <<a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:Type3@vwtype3.org">Type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: [T3] Defeat Device?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:59C7B1C1.3936.3B3A3E7C@jadney.vwtype3.org">59C7B1C1.3936.3B3A3E7C@<wbr>jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
Many of you are probably aware that I also own a late Jetta Sportwagon<br>
(modern Squareback, as Dave Hall refers to it) which has one of those<br>
offending Diesel engines. It's a great car, and I'm very happy with it, but now<br>
VW has offered to either fix or buy back the car.<br>
<br>
While watching all the news accounts of this unfortunate action on VW's<br>
part, I cut out an article that talked about how this TDi (VW Diesel) problem<br>
was not the first time VW had tried to get away with a "Defeat Device" on<br>
one of their models.<br>
<br>
Apparently, one of the very first Defeat Devices caught by the EPA was on<br>
the '73 FI Squarebacks and Fastbacks. After some Googling this week, I<br>
found that those came with a temperature switch that disabled the EGR<br>
(Exhaust Gas Recirculation) below a certain temperature. The EPA required<br>
VW to remove this switch on future cars sold, but did not require VW to<br>
remove it on the cars already out there.<br>
<br>
This may explain the extra temp switch that's mounted right on the brain of<br>
my daily driver '73. I'm always surprised to see it there, and I've never known<br>
what it was for. Until this past week, I didn't have a clue what it was for,<br>
because I'd never seen anything that mentioned it. I still need to look thru my<br>
literature to see if I can find it in the EGR circuit somewhere, but I'm<br>
confident that this explains that switch.<br>
<br>
Anyone else out there got one of these? Does your car still have that switch<br>
mounted there?<br>
<br>
--<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 19:20:54 +0000<br>
From: "Daniel K. Du Vall" <<a href="mailto:dduvall@1peter4-10.org">dduvall@1peter4-10.org</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BN6PR13MB17293151BBF706E94A244AFD93650@BN6PR13MB1729.namprd13.prod.outlook.com">BN6PR13MB17293151BBF706E94A24<wbr>4AFD93650@BN6PR13MB1729.<wbr>namprd13.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
So Jim which did you go with on your TDI?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org-<wbr>bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jim Adney<br>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:23 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:Type3@vwtype3.org">Type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: [T3] Defeat Device?<br>
<br>
Many of you are probably aware that I also own a late Jetta Sportwagon (modern Squareback, as Dave Hall refers to it) which has one of those offending Diesel engines. It's a great car, and I'm very happy with it, but now VW has offered to either fix or buy back the car.<br>
<br>
While watching all the news accounts of this unfortunate action on VW's part, I cut out an article that talked about how this TDi (VW Diesel) problem was not the first time VW had tried to get away with a "Defeat Device" on one of their models.<br>
<br>
Apparently, one of the very first Defeat Devices caught by the EPA was on the '73 FI Squarebacks and Fastbacks. After some Googling this week, I found that those came with a temperature switch that disabled the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) below a certain temperature. The EPA required VW to remove this switch on future cars sold, but did not require VW to remove it on the cars already out there.<br>
<br>
This may explain the extra temp switch that's mounted right on the brain of my daily driver '73. I'm always surprised to see it there, and I've never known what it was for. Until this past week, I didn't have a clue what it was for, because I'd never seen anything that mentioned it. I still need to look thru my literature to see if I can find it in the EGR circuit somewhere, but I'm confident that this explains that switch.<br>
<br>
Anyone else out there got one of these? Does your car still have that switch mounted there?<br>
<br>
--<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 12:29:50 -0700<br>
From: "William J" <<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?<br>
Message-ID: <<wbr>EC76DC7F63FB423BB43A65FED1499C<wbr>97@acere355056e8b><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
Yes my 73 has the thermal switch on the ECU . In the Bentley it shows it's<br>
connected the the EGR relay. In the haynes book it shows the drawing of the<br>
system yet not the controls . It does mention something about air temp and<br>
certain auto trans conditions that do not allow the EGR to open . I also<br>
notice that 73 models with fuel injection have a added ground to the<br>
pressure sensor and ECU . Also the EGR relay it wired to the TPS and wire #<br>
14 on the ECU is used and connected to the EGR relay #14 and the TPS wire #<br>
14. Perhaps the position of the TPS only allows the EGR relay to open the<br>
EGR valve and in some way wire #14 on the ECU plays a part . I imagine the<br>
thermal switch tells the EGR relay what temp to open the valve.<br>
<br>
On page 20 fuel system Bentley you can see the TPS #14 and #17 tie into 14<br>
and 17 on the EGR relay then go to the ECU the Thermal switch in on # 26 on<br>
the EGR relay.<br>
<br>
You would not want the EGR open at idle and perhaps not on a very cold day<br>
.<br>
<br>
I removed the EGR relay and valve on mine since the valve was rusted shut<br>
and did nothing .<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Jim Adney" <<a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:Type3@vwtype3.org">Type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:23 AM<br>
Subject: [T3] Defeat Device?<br>
<br>
<br>
> Many of you are probably aware that I also own a late Jetta Sportwagon<br>
> (modern Squareback, as Dave Hall refers to it) which has one of those<br>
> offending Diesel engines. It's a great car, and I'm very happy with it,<br>
> but now<br>
> VW has offered to either fix or buy back the car.<br>
><br>
> While watching all the news accounts of this unfortunate action on VW's<br>
> part, I cut out an article that talked about how this TDi (VW Diesel)<br>
> problem<br>
> was not the first time VW had tried to get away with a "Defeat Device" on<br>
> one of their models.<br>
><br>
> Apparently, one of the very first Defeat Devices caught by the EPA was on<br>
> the '73 FI Squarebacks and Fastbacks. After some Googling this week, I<br>
> found that those came with a temperature switch that disabled the EGR<br>
> (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) below a certain temperature. The EPA required<br>
> VW to remove this switch on future cars sold, but did not require VW to<br>
> remove it on the cars already out there.<br>
><br>
> This may explain the extra temp switch that's mounted right on the brain<br>
> of<br>
> my daily driver '73. I'm always surprised to see it there, and I've never<br>
> known<br>
> what it was for. Until this past week, I didn't have a clue what it was<br>
> for,<br>
> because I'd never seen anything that mentioned it. I still need to look<br>
> thru my<br>
> literature to see if I can find it in the EGR circuit somewhere, but I'm<br>
> confident that this explains that switch.<br>
><br>
> Anyone else out there got one of these? Does your car still have that<br>
> switch<br>
> mounted there?<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
> Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> VWType3.Org mailing list - <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.vwtype3.org/<wbr>listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
> If you need more help, contact: <a href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:40:33 -0500<br>
From: "Jim Adney" <<a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:59C81841.27556.3CCAA441@jadney.vwtype3.org">59C81841.27556.3CCAA441@<wbr>jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
On 24 Sep 2017 at 19:20, Daniel K. Du Vall wrote:<br>
<br>
> So Jim which did you go with on your TDI?<br>
<br>
I haven't done anything yet. I was going to sell it back, but the "fix" sounds<br>
so appealing that I'm tempted to get that done. I plan to wait to hear more<br>
about people's experience with the fix before commiting.<br>
<br>
It's a great car, with terrific fuel mileage. If the early reports are accurate,<br>
that there's only a small decrease in fuel mileage, I'll go with the "fix." So far<br>
it sounds reasonable.<br>
<br>
--<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
<br>
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