<div dir="ltr">What fuel are you using, is it a methanol blend, If so I would suggest trying it on Pure Gasoline and see if there is a difference, there is a possibility the methanol is evaporating off and causing a difference in the initial fuel mixture that is causing the Ping. this would also account for the differences in idle speed,<div>Regards</div><div>Nigel</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 5:24 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a> mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
(<a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a>)<br>
2. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)<br>
3. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)<br>
4. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (Keith Park)<br>
5. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)<br>
6. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging<br>
(<a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a>)<br>
7. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (Jim Adney)<br>
8. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (William J)<br>
9. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
(<a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a>)<br>
10. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
(<a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a>)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:44:28 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3db069.2312f6a4.475dc14c@aol.com">3db069.2312f6a4.475dc14c@aol.<wbr>com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,<br>
<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a> writes:<br>
<br>
What it does now is<br>
start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a<br>
short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle<br>
drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to 950.<br>
<br>
I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor<br>
richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much .<br>
I<br>
have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.<br>
<br>
<br>
The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is because<br>
of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.<br>
<br>
I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head temp<br>
sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to lean out<br>
the mix. This might be what you're seeing.<br>
<br>
Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:51:47 -0800<br>
From: "William J" <<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID: <<wbr>94B8B479ED2948CCAEDFC1BDEDA58B<wbr>D2@acere355056e8b><br>
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<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: <<a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 2:44 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
<br>
<br>
> In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,<br>
> <a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a> writes:<br>
><br>
> What it does now is<br>
> start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a<br>
> short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle<br>
> drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to<br>
> 950.<br>
><br>
> I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor<br>
> richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much .<br>
> I<br>
> have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.<br>
><br>
><br>
> The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is<br>
> because<br>
> of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.<br>
<br>
Yes that I agree is normal .<br>
><br>
> I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head temp<br>
> sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to lean<br>
> out<br>
> the mix. This might be what you're seeing.<br>
<br>
I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't help<br>
. It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it<br>
dropped to 70 ohm hot.<br>
<br>
I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it does<br>
now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2<br>
minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the head<br>
temp sensor heats up that fast. I haven't gone to the extent of removing the<br>
sensor and heating it in oil to see at what temps it reads what ohm value .<br>
>From what 've read the reason the engine will not start with it unplugged is<br>
because it causes an over rich condition it seems to indicate the ECU needs<br>
to see resistance at all times. I just know it will not start or run with it<br>
unplugged. I have pots that I can dial in any where from 0 to 1 K ohm and<br>
dial in 70 ohm to see what it does yet no way of reading actual head temp.<br>
Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all<br>
applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and T3's .<br>
<br>
Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not sure<br>
if this is general info or applies to type 4 .<br>
><br>
> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:57:16 -0800<br>
From: "William J" <<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID: <<wbr>8A02408C6F494192AFA29DC3C56B4A<wbr>96@acere355056e8b><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=response<br>
<br>
If I could call someone with this cell phone and have them listen to the<br>
change with the sensor in and out of the system it would be impossible to<br>
miss.<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "William J" <<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 11:28 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
<br>
<br>
> I think it's possible and even probable .<br>
><br>
> There is just one detail I wanted to add. I just want to stress one point.<br>
> I don't recall if I brought this up about when I start the car cold well<br>
> before the ping thing . The AAR would be open , the idle would be set at<br>
> 950 , in a minute the idle would rise to 1500 RPM and once in reverse drop<br>
> back down . As soon as I placed it back in park it would hang at 1500 for<br>
> a while. And not to dwell on the unplugged air temp sensor . I just drove<br>
> it today and last Thursday with the sensor un plugged and it no longer<br>
> does this. From what I understand The AAR is only to allow air to bypass<br>
> the closed throttle plate and the MPS senses this adding more fuel . It's<br>
> not supposed to increase the RPM that much perhaps a bit yet not 550 RPM's<br>
> higher than the set base idle . Since it rises so much it in fact advances<br>
> the timing which it will because of the RPM increase . What it does now is<br>
> start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a<br>
> short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle<br>
> drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to 950.<br>
> About a year ago it would have the 1500 RPM right away and if I let it<br>
> idle it would stay there for a good 15 to 20 minutes then drop to the 950<br>
> and begin the erratic miss.<br>
><br>
> I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor<br>
> richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much .<br>
> I have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think . On the other<br>
> end and only by a few people on Samba I am told to adjust the MPS . My<br>
> thinking is not to mess with the MPS I feel it just work as is . It does<br>
> not leak and the 2 readings 90 ohm and 350 ohms are when they should be<br>
> and it's the proper one for my E system..<br>
><br>
> I do agree with a long drive yet based just on what the sensor does and<br>
> it's not just the idle that smooths out it runs better as I drive it. Once<br>
> I pulled the Dist that was sticking and installed the AH and timed it it<br>
> lost a bit of pickup that came back with the sensor unplugged. I imagine<br>
> there is some difference between the two distibutors advanc curve. Yet<br>
> this did not fix the erratic miss that remained the same.<br>
><br>
> Do I look for a vacuum leak?<br>
><br>
> I am just trying to find out why this is. I'd rather run rich than lean<br>
> for obvious reasons.<br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Jim Adney" <<a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
> To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 5:10 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On 9 Dec 2017 at 11:18, Dave Hall wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a<br>
>>> good<br>
>>> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very far<br>
>>> at<br>
>>> all.<br>
>>> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in a<br>
>>> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the 'soot'.<br>
>>> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?<br>
>><br>
>> Yes, I'll second that. William has said he never gets the car above 45<br>
>> mi/hr,<br>
>> so let's see what a couple hours at 65-70 does.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
>> Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
>> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
>><br>
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>> If you need more help, contact: <a href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 19:55:33 -0500<br>
From: "Keith Park" <<a href="mailto:topnotch@nycap.rr.com">topnotch@nycap.rr.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:mailman.3731.1512867333.15231.type3-vwtype3.org@lists.vwtype3.org">mailman.3731.1512867333.<wbr>15231.type3-vwtype3.org@lists.<wbr>vwtype3.org</a>><br>
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<br>
These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my<br>
Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed<br>
alot could straighten itself out.<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
<br>
Topnotch Restorations<br>
<a href="mailto:topnotch@nycap.rr.com">topnotch@nycap.rr.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/<wbr>radiorest/main.htm</a><br>
71 Squareback "Hothe"<br>
65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"<br>
93 RX7 "Redstur"<br>
95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org-<wbr>bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of William J<br>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
<br>
It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was 2006<br>
except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some side<br>
streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same<br>
thing as fully warming it up .<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Dave Hall" <<a href="mailto:dave@hallvw.clara.co.uk">dave@hallvw.clara.co.uk</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
<br>
<br>
>I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a good<br>
> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very far<br>
> at<br>
> all.<br>
> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in a<br>
> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the 'soot'.<br>
> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?<br>
><br>
> Dave<br>
> UK VW Type 3&4 Club<br>
> ===================<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org-<wbr>bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Jim Adney<br>
> Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
><br>
> On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:<br>
><br>
> Content removed<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
> Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
><br>
><br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:21:00 -0800<br>
From: "William J" <<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID: <<wbr>97E0766682E44E99BA2FAD5A4BCA53<wbr>05@acere355056e8b><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
That may have to be on hold since the entire area around us and most<br>
freeways are iffy since everything around here is on fire.<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Keith Park" <<a href="mailto:topnotch@nycap.rr.com">topnotch@nycap.rr.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 4:55 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
<br>
<br>
> These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my<br>
> Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed<br>
> alot could straighten itself out.<br>
><br>
> Keith<br>
><br>
><br>
> Topnotch Restorations<br>
> <a href="mailto:topnotch@nycap.rr.com">topnotch@nycap.rr.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/<wbr>radiorest/main.htm</a><br>
> 71 Squareback "Hothe"<br>
> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"<br>
> 93 RX7 "Redstur"<br>
> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org-<wbr>bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of William J<br>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
><br>
> It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was 2006<br>
> except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some side<br>
> streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same<br>
> thing as fully warming it up .<br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Dave Hall" <<a href="mailto:dave@hallvw.clara.co.uk">dave@hallvw.clara.co.uk</a>><br>
> To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
><br>
><br>
>>I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a good<br>
>> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very far<br>
>> at<br>
>> all.<br>
>> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in a<br>
>> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the 'soot'.<br>
>> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?<br>
>><br>
>> Dave<br>
>> UK VW Type 3&4 Club<br>
>> ===================<br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="http://type3-vwtype3.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org-<wbr>bounces@lists.vwtype3.org</a>]<br>
>> On Behalf Of Jim Adney<br>
>> Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
>><br>
>> On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Content removed<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
>> Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
>> ******************************<wbr>*<br>
>><br>
>><br>
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>><br>
><br>
><br>
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><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 20:58:18 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3dcb93.28c8db59.475deeba@aol.com">3dcb93.28c8db59.475deeba@aol.<wbr>com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
In a message dated 12/9/2017 8:30:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,<br>
<a href="mailto:phil.hof@ostronic.org">phil.hof@ostronic.org</a> writes:<br>
<br>
Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is<br>
different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum leaks that<br>
might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has a good diagram<br>
and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could set this right and<br>
eliminate another variable.<br>
<br>
This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV system<br>
VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and causes a miss.<br>
What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the guts of the valve, and<br>
add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't remember what size right off<br>
hand) in the vac hose to the plenum. What this does is allow you to tune<br>
around the "constant vacuum leak" of the small hole. I only mention this, as<br>
all of the type 4 engines (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, and<br>
have issues with it. I haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV system<br>
really works, but then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on carbs.<br>
The rest of the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real PCV<br>
set up.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps.<br>
<br>
Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS<br>
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Message: 7<br>
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 20:12:56 -0600<br>
From: "Jim Adney" <<a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:5A2C9828.25597.3886425A@jadney.vwtype3.org">5A2C9828.25597.3886425A@<wbr>jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
On 9 Dec 2017 at 20:58, <a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
> This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV<br>
> system VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and<br>
> causes a miss. What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the<br>
> guts of the valve, and add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't<br>
> remember what size right off hand) in the vac hose to the plenum. What<br>
> this does is allow you to tune around the "constant vacuum leak" of<br>
> the small hole. I only mention this, as all of the type 4 engines<br>
> (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, and have issues with it. I<br>
> haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV system really works, but<br>
> then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on carbs. The rest of<br>
> the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real PCV set<br>
> up.<br>
<br>
All '72-3 FI Type 3s came with the 2 cap breather system. I've had several of<br>
them and they were all fine. No problems whatsoever. There's already a tiny<br>
little pinhole where that air enters the IAD, so there's no way for this to be<br>
overwhelming.<br>
<br>
--<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
Jim Adney, <a href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
******************************<wbr>*<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:16:15 -0800<br>
From: "William J" <<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging<br>
Message-ID: <<wbr>CFE3F08263CF46348EED4D272175B1<wbr>60@acere355056e8b><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";<br>
reply-type=original<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Phil Hof" <<a href="mailto:phil.hof@ostronic.org">phil.hof@ostronic.org</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org@lists.<wbr>vwtype3.org</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:43 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging<br>
<br>
<br>
> You answered my first thought, which is if the MPS leaks or not. You said<br>
> no., so let?s table the MPS for now.<br>
><br>
> Next, I wonder if your injector tip seals are bad. This would allow air<br>
> in, causing leanness in any leaking cylinders (and perhaps pinging on<br>
> that/those cylinders), but because it?s maybe only one of four, and so far<br>
> from the MPS, it may not tip off the MPS much to enrichen things, and your<br>
> ?pull the TS plug? enriches it enough to alleviate the pinging, those it<br>
> makes the other, non-leaking cylinders run rich.<br>
<br>
The pinging stopped once I installed the other dist I rebuilt. I had this<br>
same issue not the pinging that was new and vever happened before. In 2009<br>
when this started I replaced the injector seals . It was the last thing I<br>
did because I had to wait for them to arrive and I had high hopes yet new<br>
ones didn't help . Before this began all I did was put the heat exchangers<br>
back on instead of the J pipes. Changed all the fuel lines and filter .<br>
adjusted the valves , changed the plugs which were Bosch that I had from 97<br>
, oil change . This was when I joined Samba to see if anyone might know . I<br>
went as far as to check every single wire ECU umplugged and checked for<br>
opens or shorts . I replaced vaccum lines nad the PVC hose . I've only put a<br>
little over 2 K miles on it since . It always came down to unplugging that<br>
sensor . I got another MPS that was never used and it was better. I replaced<br>
the plug wires and cap and rotor , gone over the valves twice in 2016 .<br>
tightened every single FI connector and the FI to case grounds. . I thought<br>
with all of this it would improve and at times it did yet never lasted long.<br>
Went through the charging system . Checked for voltage drops . The FI power<br>
relay is the original as is the fuel pump relay . It's possible I suppose<br>
the power relay contacts are not allowing full voltage to the ECU , that was<br>
next on my list . I never really had a reason to suspect it it did have<br>
battery voltage at the ECU last I checked.<br>
><br>
> Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is<br>
> different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum<br>
> leaks that might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has a<br>
> good diagram and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could set<br>
> this right and eliminate another variable. Ot just scan the Samba<br>
> classified and put in the older, simpler, PVC/breather system.<br>
<br>
The PCV system seems to do it's job and to plug off the head ports and PCV<br>
to IAD pipe wouldn't be that difficult . I only know of two breathers that<br>
would work . One is the old draft tube and the other requires replacing the<br>
oil filler tube and dip stick I think there's one that has one nipple on the<br>
one cap breather that connects to the oil bath yet don't know it that's the<br>
entire venting or if it involves the tube down to the oil filler . I can't<br>
find much info. If the PCV broke I'd have to figure something out . All it<br>
needs is a way to vent case pressure without sucking up oil in the process .<br>
><br>
> -Phil<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> VWType3.Org mailing list - <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br>
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> If you need more help, contact: <a href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
><br>
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<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:22:02 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3dcd7e.6df83fd1.475df44a@aol.com">3dcd7e.6df83fd1.475df44a@aol.<wbr>com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:30:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,<br>
<a href="mailto:catnine09@dslextreme.com">catnine09@dslextreme.com</a> writes:<br>
<br>
I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't<br>
help<br>
. It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it<br>
dropped to 70 ohm hot.<br>
<br>
I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it does<br>
now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2<br>
minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the head<br>
temp sensor heats up that fast.<br>
Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all<br>
applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and T3's<br>
.<br>
<br>
Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not sure<br>
if this is general info or applies to type 4 .<br>
<br>
For your air temps, you should be have a reading of around 22-23K when<br>
cold. At 27K, your air temp should be around 30*F, which would be very cold<br>
for So Cal-Hollywood. Your "hot" temp should be above 100 ohms, with it<br>
"bottoming out" around 125 ohms or so. Anything below that just keeps leaning<br>
out the mixture. This is why I mentioned ballasting the HTS. If you're<br>
wanting to err on the rich side, a 400 or even a 500 ohm resister is what you'd<br>
want to put in line with the HTS.<br>
Yes, all of the new HTS's that are available now are the same build, and<br>
now are used on all air cooled VWs. It's not ideal, but they do kind of<br>
work. What you really want to do is check the resistance range before<br>
installing, as it might need ballast right out of the box. It's a real shame Denso<br>
doesn't make a replacement of them, as the quality might be better (more<br>
like the older Bosch units) than what's available today.<br>
<br>
What Ray's theory is that 70 is below the threshold is from studying the<br>
Bosch books, and working with D-jet (both in t-4 and t-3 ) applications.<br>
There's info out there, but a majority is for the 914 (uses the same system<br>
basically), as those owners WANT to keep the D-Jet FI working correctly.Plus,<br>
they have the cash to have specialized parts made to do so. I'm not saying<br>
VW people can't have the parts made, but rather most give up and go to<br>
carbs because it's easier to do so.Plus, they're not "concourse" type of<br>
vehicles like Porsche or Mercedees people show at special events.<br>
<br>
<br>
Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS<br>
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Message: 10<br>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:24:38 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:Bobsnotch@aol.com">Bobsnotch@aol.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3dcdd0.494dbfb8.475df4e6@aol.com">3dcdd0.494dbfb8.475df4e6@aol.<wbr>com</a>><br>
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<br>
In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:55:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,<br>
<a href="mailto:fisherfarms@gmail.com">fisherfarms@gmail.com</a> writes:<br>
<br>
My '69 FI/AT 1600 never seems to vary more than about 50 rpm?<br>
<br>
Yeah, but Mike your car gets tuned by Tram when it acts up. It's also got<br>
the more "primitive" FI system, versus what William is dealing with.<br>
<br>
Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS<br>
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