<div style="color:black;font: 10pt arial;">
<div> <font size="2">What happens when you hook it up? Does it start the car? If not, then I'd <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="2">leave it on the charger for another week.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Bob 65 Notch S w/sunroof</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Gary Forsmo <gbforsmo@gmail.com><br>
To: type3-vwtype3.org@lists.vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org@lists.vwtype3.org><br>
Sent: Sat, Jul 17, 2021 4:50 pm<br>
Subject: [T3] Ray-O-Vac battery
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">On 7/9/2021 the voltage was checked & read 13.30 VDC. After 1 hour of<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">"resting", the voltage dropped to 13.07 VDC.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Back on the Maintainer for another week.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Today, 7/17/2021 the voltage was checked & read 13.27 VDC. After 1 hour<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">of "resting" the voltage dropped to 13.04 VDC.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">With that history, is it time to buy and install a new 12 Volt Battery?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">On Monday, July 12, 2021, <<a ymailto="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org">type3-vwtype3.org-request@lists.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Today's Topics:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 1. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Jim Adney)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 2. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Jim Adney)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 3. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Jim Adney)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 4. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Jim Adney)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 5. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Tim Schiller)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 6. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Jim Adney)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 7. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Jim Adney)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 8. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (William Jahn)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 9. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (William Jahn)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 10. Re: Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback (Tim Schiller)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 23:18:44 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: "Jim Adney" <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:60EBC2A4.10444.15D127FC@jadney.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:60EBC2A4.10444.15D127FC@jadney.vwtype3.org">60EBC2A4.10444.15D127FC@jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> On 11 Jul 2021 at 16:57, Tim Schiller wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Ground the wire or the pin? I assume the pin<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Neither, leave the coil connections alone for now.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jumper input to output (30 to 87) on the relay to simply bypass it.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Message: 2<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 23:18:43 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: "Jim Adney" <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:60EBC2A3.29875.15D126C4@jadney.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:60EBC2A3.29875.15D126C4@jadney.vwtype3.org">60EBC2A3.29875.15D126C4@jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> On 11 Jul 2021 at 15:02, Tim Schiller wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Without putting a bigger charger on battery, it is at 13V now. There is<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> also<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > 13V at the power relay.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> You don't want a bigger charger. Disconnect the charger and let the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> battery<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> rest for an hour or so, then measure the resting voltage. If it's less<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> than 12 V,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the battery is shot. If it's above 12 V continue charging at the lowest<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> possible<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> rate.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Thought I would start at beginning at check pump relay again. There is<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 13V<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > at the 30 pin. When ignition is turned on, there is also 13V at the 85<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > 86 pins.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Unless the engine is turning over, 87 will have 12 V on it only for the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> first ~1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> second after you turn the key ON.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > When I check the 87 pins it is pretty consistent at zero. This is true<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> with<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > multiple new relays. If I disconnect pump wire, should I get 13V at the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> pin?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > I was just trying to eliminate the pump causing a short.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> You can repeat the check above with the red pump wire disconnected. The<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> result should be the same. If there was an actual short to ground there,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> fuse should have blown.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > The negative braided battery cable has some corrosion. I will need to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> order<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > one if I?m to replace.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> That's not a problem, although it's sometimes useful to loosen and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> retighten<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the connections at both ends of the cable. Any modern replacement you buy<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> will be junk compared to the OE one, no matter what the old one looks like.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Harbor Freight has an ignition bypass to allow starting of car when you<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > can?t fully turn key. Is this the type of bypass you are referring to?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I don't think this is likely to be useful to you here.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > I was reading out of a Clymer manual and it discussed pulling the wire<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> from<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > the 85 pin on the pump relay that I believe goes to the ECU #19. It says<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ground this wire to Bypass ignition. Says the pump should run full time<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> when<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > doing this to test if pump is good. Didn?t want to do until asking<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> someone<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > much smarter than I.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> The wires to 85 and 86 should be in a white plastic connector, which<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> prevents them from being misconnected. Best to just leave them there. If<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> you<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> want to run the pump without the relay, just use a small jumper wire to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> connect the 2 red wires on the relay. That bypasses the relay and runs the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> pump full time. If you do this, check carefully for gas leaks and don't<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> forget to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> remove the jumper when you're done.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 3<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 23:18:43 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: "Jim Adney" <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:60EBC2A3.11378.15D12618@jadney.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:60EBC2A3.11378.15D12618@jadney.vwtype3.org">60EBC2A3.11378.15D12618@jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> On 11 Jul 2021 at 17:07, William Jahn wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Take the pump relay connector off and remove 85 from the connector . Then<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ground the relay pin . DO NOT ground the wire , if you do it will kill<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ECU . If you want you can cut the wire don't let the end running to the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ECU touch any ground . strip that wire at the pump relay end and use a<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > jumper to ground it .<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Please don't do any of this. Waste of your time and possibly damaging to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> your parts.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Just jumper 87 to 30, red to red, on the relay.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 4<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 23:18:44 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: "Jim Adney" <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:60EBC2A4.23660.15D12760@jadney.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:60EBC2A4.23660.15D12760@jadney.vwtype3.org">60EBC2A4.23660.15D12760@jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On 11 Jul 2021 at 17:17, William Jahn wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > If you just ground it connected you will kill the ECU.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> No it won't. It won't care. It's an open collector on an NPN transistor to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ground. You can ground it or not. If you connect a full 12 V to it,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> without any<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> limiting resistance, that WILL kill it.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 5<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 21:48:56 -0700<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: Tim Schiller <<a ymailto="mailto:schillertim@comcast.net" href="mailto:schillertim@comcast.net">schillertim@comcast.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:0BDA9F74-E7BB-47F3-B65F-0C865E2D0072@comcast.net" href="mailto:0BDA9F74-E7BB-47F3-B65F-0C865E2D0072@comcast.net">0BDA9F74-E7BB-47F3-B65F-0C865E2D0072@comcast.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ?I did a little testing when I got home and prior to reading these most<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> recent posts. He is what I found or know.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> My 85 & 86 wires no longer have the white plastic cover on the pump relay.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Is it possible to replace?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I did not cut any wires but did ground the 85 pin. When I turn key on,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> pump runs. Turn key off pump stops. So I think this tells me pump is good<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> and it is not my ignition.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> This appears to indicate there is an issue with the wire labeled in<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Bentley as T1 , 19 which I believe means it goes to the ECU #19 terminal.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Not sure what is meant by T1, if anything<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPhone<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > On Jul 11, 2021, at 9:19 PM, Jim Adney <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ?On 11 Jul 2021 at 17:17, William Jahn wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> If you just ground it connected you will kill the ECU.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > No it won't. It won't care. It's an open collector on an NPN transistor<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ground. You can ground it or not. If you connect a full 12 V to it,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> without any<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > limiting resistance, that WILL kill it.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > _______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > VWType3.Org mailing list - <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > <a href="http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org" target="_blank">http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > If you need more help, contact: <a ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 6<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 00:55:43 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: "Jim Adney" <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:60EBD95F.12718.1629F1F7@jadney.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:60EBD95F.12718.1629F1F7@jadney.vwtype3.org">60EBD95F.12718.1629F1F7@jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On 11 Jul 2021 at 21:48, Tim Schiller wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > My 85 & 86 wires no longer have the white plastic cover on the pump<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> relay.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Is it possible to replace?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Possibly. I'll have to see if I have one I can get to. Do your female<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> faston<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> lugs still have the locking tab on them?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > I did not cut any wires but did ground the 85 pin. When I turn key on,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> pump<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > runs. Turn key off pump stops. So I think this tells me pump is good and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> it<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > is not my ignition.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Okay, this tells you that the brain is not grounding that wire, so the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> relay was<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> not being activated. Does the engine start now?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > This appears to indicate there is an issue with the wire labeled in<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Bentley<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > as T1 , 19 which I believe means it goes to the ECU #19 terminal. Not<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> sure<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > what is meant by T1, if anything<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> T1 is a single wire inline connector. It connects that wire from the relay<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> to the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> FI wiring harness wire #19. It's a brown, translucent plastic connector<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> bundled with the wiring harness in front of the engine, just to the left<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> of the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> IAD (Intake Air Distributor.) Check there to make sure the wires are good<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> and properly connected inside.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Reconnect the wire to the relay, turn the key ON, and then use a separate<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> wire to ground the connectors inside T1. You don't have to disconnect<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> anything inside T1 to do this. When you ground T1 you should hear the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> relay<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> click and the pump run. If this happens correctly, you have verified<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> everything from T1 forward.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> If everything from T1 forward is good, that leaves only the wire from T1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the brain, the connector to the brain, and the brain itself. Unless you<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> find an<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> obvious problem in T1 or in the wires, the fault is probably that NPN<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> transistor in the brain.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I can replace the transistor, but it's probably not worthwhile doing, as I<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> can<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> sell you a replacement B brain for less than the parts & labor to do a<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> replacement. You have an early '69, which may have come with an A brain<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> (A suffix at the end of the VW part number.) If, by some chance, this car<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> still<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> has an A brain, you definitely want to replace it with a B, which<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> superceeded<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the A. I believe most '69s came with B brains. I have known good, used,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> tested B brains for $50 plus shipping. If I ship you a brain along with<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> other parts you've asked for, the extra shipping cost would be minimal.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 7<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:44:53 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: "Jim Adney" <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:60EC6375.1371.18455826@jadney.vwtype3.org" href="mailto:60EC6375.1371.18455826@jadney.vwtype3.org">60EC6375.1371.18455826@jadney.vwtype3.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On 12 Jul 2021 at 0:55, Jim Adney wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > On 11 Jul 2021 at 21:48, Tim Schiller wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > > I did not cut any wires but did ground the 85 pin. When I turn key on,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> pump<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > > runs. Turn key off pump stops. So I think this tells me pump is good<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> and it<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > > is not my ignition.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Okay, this tells you that the brain is not grounding that wire, so the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> relay was<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > not being activated. Does the engine start now?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I just realized that this info contradicts your earlier observation that<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> you<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> could hear relays click when you turned the key ON and again ~1 second<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> later. Do you no longer get that second click?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> If you get that second click, that means that the connection to wire 19<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the transistor in the brain are all good. It's still possible that there<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> is<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> something in there that's intermittent, so it doesn't always work. The<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> most<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> likely candidate would be in T1, where someone has messed with it and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> done a sloppy repair.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 8<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:15:24 -0700<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: William Jahn <<a ymailto="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com" href="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com">willjahn975@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <CADD65r45K8Xe30yh1vJwRRsdp1JOQiy=OetUXBWTYwxhztD+<a ymailto="mailto:ng@mail.gm" href="mailto:ng@mail.gm">ng@mail.gm</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ail.com><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I was simply going by what the Bentley states. That's all I have for<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> reference. In testing the fuel pump Bentely states not to ground that wire<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> connected to the ECU it doesn't say all years or specify a year. I never<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> had any issues with the pump not running except once when it was the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> connector on the fuel pump. I have no more advice to offer. The only thing<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> it seems I was possibly right about was connector T1 and it's an<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> intermittent electrical issue and only because it did work a few times.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Bypassing the relay 87 to 30 will only tell you if the pump and it's wiring<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> are working if the engine runs, it won't tell you anything as to why the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> pump relay coil has no ground. The Bentley is fine for some things, not for<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> everything.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> At least I tried and in doing so made me look like an idiot offering all<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the wrong advice.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 9:19 PM Jim Adney <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > On 11 Jul 2021 at 17:17, William Jahn wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > > If you just ground it connected you will kill the ECU.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > No it won't. It won't care. It's an open collector on an NPN transistor<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ground. You can ground it or not. If you connect a full 12 V to it,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > without any<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > limiting resistance, that WILL kill it.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > _______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > VWType3.Org mailing list - <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > <a href="http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org" target="_blank">http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > If you need more help, contact: <a ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> -------------- next part --------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
</div>
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</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ments/20210712/124635e5/attachment.html><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message: 9<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:33:04 -0700<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: William Jahn <<a ymailto="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com" href="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com">willjahn975@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <CADD65r6bsThvkpkxZbE=<a ymailto="mailto:138QJ2NmcXd8X9V3bzaF9UUPDF2PpQ@mail.gm" href="mailto:138QJ2NmcXd8X9V3bzaF9UUPDF2PpQ@mail.gm">138QJ2NmcXd8X9V3bzaF9UUPDF2PpQ@mail.gm</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ail.com><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> It's difficult trying to diagnose an electrical issue when I can't see the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> car. I've been able to fix everything on my own 73 including repair the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> electric air bypass valve that was sticking . Over time original pump and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> power relays will no longer exist.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 11:15 AM William Jahn <<a ymailto="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com" href="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com">willjahn975@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > I was simply going by what the Bentley states. That's all I have for<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > reference. In testing the fuel pump Bentely states not to ground that<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> wire<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > connected to the ECU it doesn't say all years or specify a year. I never<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > had any issues with the pump not running except once when it was the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > connector on the fuel pump. I have no more advice to offer. The only<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> thing<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > it seems I was possibly right about was connector T1 and it's an<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > intermittent electrical issue and only because it did work a few times.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Bypassing the relay 87 to 30 will only tell you if the pump and it's<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> wiring<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > are working if the engine runs, it won't tell you anything as to why the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > pump relay coil has no ground. The Bentley is fine for some things, not<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> for<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > everything.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > At least I tried and in doing so made me look like an idiot offering all<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > the wrong advice.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 9:19 PM Jim Adney <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> On 11 Jul 2021 at 17:17, William Jahn wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> > If you just ground it connected you will kill the ECU.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> No it won't. It won't care. It's an open collector on an NPN transistor<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> ground. You can ground it or not. If you connect a full 12 V to it,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> without any<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> limiting resistance, that WILL kill it.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> --<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> _______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> <a href="http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org" target="_blank">http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> If you need more help, contact: <a ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Message: 10<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:38:11 -0700<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> From: Tim Schiller <<a ymailto="mailto:schillertim@comcast.net" href="mailto:schillertim@comcast.net">schillertim@comcast.net</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> To: <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:3D9DDADB-4462-4E9D-94AA-EE30315E527B@comcast.net" href="mailto:3D9DDADB-4462-4E9D-94AA-EE30315E527B@comcast.net">3D9DDADB-4462-4E9D-94AA-EE30315E527B@comcast.net</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> From the guy whose car doesn?t run, I have found the collective input to<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> be extremely valuable.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPhone<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > On Jul 12, 2021, at 11:15 AM, William Jahn <<a ymailto="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com" href="mailto:willjahn975@gmail.com">willjahn975@gmail.com</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > ?I was simply going by what the Bentley states. That's all I have for<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > reference. In testing the fuel pump Bentely states not to ground that<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> wire<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > connected to the ECU it doesn't say all years or specify a year. I never<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > had any issues with the pump not running except once when it was the<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > connector on the fuel pump. I have no more advice to offer. The only<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> thing<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > it seems I was possibly right about was connector T1 and it's an<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > intermittent electrical issue and only because it did work a few times.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > Bypassing the relay 87 to 30 will only tell you if the pump and it's<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> wiring<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > are working if the engine runs, it won't tell you anything as to why the<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > pump relay coil has no ground. The Bentley is fine for some things, not<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> for<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > everything.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > At least I tried and in doing so made me look like an idiot offering all<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > the wrong advice.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 9:19 PM Jim Adney <<a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >>> On 11 Jul 2021 at 17:17, William Jahn wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >>> If you just ground it connected you will kill the ECU.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> No it won't. It won't care. It's an open collector on an NPN transistor<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> to<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> ground. You can ground it or not. If you connect a full 12 V to it,<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> without any<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> limiting resistance, that WILL kill it.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> --<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> Jim Adney, <a ymailto="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org">jadney@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> *******************************<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> _______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> >> <a href="http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org" target="_blank">http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> If you need more help, contact: <a ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > _______________________________________________<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> > If you need more help, contact: <a ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> VWType3.Org mailing list - <a ymailto="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:type3@vwtype3.org">type3@vwtype3.org</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> If you need more help, contact: <a ymailto="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org" href="mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org">gregm@vwtype3.org</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr">> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 130, Issue 12<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> **************************************************<br>
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<div dir="ltr">><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
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<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Gary "Frito" - '69 Squareback, FI, MT, One-owner<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Rockport, TX (winter)<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Lake Geneva, WI (summer)<br>
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<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
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