[T3] start issues...

[Keith Park]

Well among my various career specialties I worked in failure analysis for
many years,  Ever see Modern Marvels episode on tin whiskers? I was the one
to find THE part and the root cause of the scram at that nuclear plant (they
got the date wrong though, it was 2002).

Anywho... the age factors with copper are corrosion and vibration, the metal
doesn't 'age' per say, but work hardens then gets brittle and of course
corrosion, especially in the salt belt.  Work hardening is very seldom a
problem even in very well used cars as the wire is stranded and meant to
vibrate, corrosion IS a problem but a correct crimp is actually a cold weld
that seals out moisture from the joint between the wire and connector.
Corrosion can eventually eat right thru the wire and or connector however,
but this can be remedied by installing a new connector or splicing on a new
wire end.  We, however, most likely don't have the $400 pair of crimpers to
correctly crimp on a new connector and not doing it right is creating a
failure point again.  You can solder, but must make sure the corrosion is
cleaned off the wire for that joint to last, naval jelley is a good idea as
some of the more aggressive fluxes are prone to problems too.

Age factors with the brass connector ends are corrosion and having the metal
get brittle and fail.  Again, new connector ends can be installed if you
have the correct crimper or can solder it properly.

The pre-68 ignition systems are a problem because the switches are just
plain underdesigned.  They are OK for a while if you don't sit there and
crank on it much but as the cars get older and don't start as well because
they go out of tune the contacts get hot and burn the Bakelite buttons and
eventually fail. Roughly 70 amps goes thru them at 6V.  the 12V ones last
longer but still die early even with half the current.  Ive never had the
late ones fail, but if the car is abused or constantly cranked a lot I
suppose they will, with FI, I never need more than one compression stroke.

Franks idea of adding a starter relay to get the current off the ignition
switch is really a necessity for the pre-68 switches,  they are very hard to
source and expensive so I do advise it but you must do it properly or have
someone who can install it or as Phil stated, you will be creating other
problems.  That starter relay isn't a bad idea with the later switches
eather, but if the car is in good tune and not cranked on they should last a
long while.

Most of our harnesses are still fine after all these years IF nobody has
gotten to them with a pair of wire cutters and nobody has shorted anything
out and melted anything.  Usually however, a few connectors need to be
replaced and that's where proper work makes the difference between obtaining
reliability again and swapping one set of problems for another.

Keith


Top Notch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com 
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback "Hothe"
65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
87 golf "Winterat"
93 RX7 "Redstur"

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
[mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Phil Hof
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 5:23 PM
To: type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] start issues...

I usually advise against these starter relays because they add several more
connections.  Wires do not wear out or even age perceptibly.  The
connections do, however, from vibration, corrosion, insertion/removal
fatigue, temperature cycling,  dirt and splash.  An additional component
with additional connections, especially when installed under the car
exposed, is often only a temporary fix that adds to the problem down the
road.  If the original connectors are cleaned, replaced, soldered, sleeved,
or otherwise set right, the problem usually disappears.

However, there are valid reasons for adding such a relay.  One is if you
have a rare switch (such as the '71 switch, or some of the earlier
one-year-only types).  Sparing such a rare device the solenoid current, and
using it only for triggering a relay, can extend its life.  In this case, I
recommend the relay be installed inside the cabin, near the battery, perhaps
on the driver side where the defroster and EFI relays live.

Also, I believe Porsche installed the battery up front in an attempt to
improve the front-rear weight distribution, not for electrical reasons.

-Phil
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: Frank Meek <ftalker at gmail.com>
Hi there
Other than the obvious tests for generator, regulator and battery function,
(which should have been a first step), the problems with older VW starters
are the lengths and the current age of these looms.  A solution is to use a
12v Ford, (this is the application, generic is fine), starter solenoid,
mounted on the trans case bolts or into the lower section of the double-wall
engine compartment near the starter.  I have no means at this site to show
the wiring and gauges of wire needed for this install, but it cuts the
length of the start current to about two feet from the 12v source, your
battery.
This, of course, is the problem with the now well-aged wiring and, indeed,
with the original system.   In short, (no pun intended), this means that the
ignition switch, instead of being a "power routing source", (from rear-mount
battery forward to the switch and then back again to the starter), is, with
the additional solenoid, merely a switch again, (also saving these
increasingly rare items, from early deaths by electrocution).  The 12v power
is routed directly from the battery to the starter, with the ignition switch
telling it when to do so.
I have used this for years with 6v and 12v models and it works like a
charm.  These "Ford" solenoids need to be sealed, (plastic-dip brush-on
electric wire coating), and then you might just have a reliable vehicle that
doesn't require a hill on which to park.
Of course, the charging system must also work, as stated earlier.
This, incidentally, is the reason that Porsche batteries are in the front,
under the spare, nearer the ignition switch...
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
FE Meek
==============================================================


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