[T3] no start -- but just drove it!

Sat Feb 11 17:51:38 PST 2012

BTW -

Battery read 12.54v when I started cranking.  I'm down to 12.4V now.  I
can't remember what minimum voltages are to start the car, but I think I'm
still ok.  yes?

Car has sat since this starter issue happened 3 weeks ago.  I forgot to
disconnect the battery.  But seems like I still have enough juice to start
the car.  If I'm wrong here, let me know.

Thanks,

 - Bryon

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Bryon Garvin <spinningrooves at gmail.com>wrote:

> Ok.  Starter turned that time.  However I couldn't start the car.  I have
> Jim's fuel pump primer.  I ran that for 30 seconds and tried a couple
> times.  No luck.  Then it occurred to me that this method would not let the
> starter ever stop until I took the
> lead off the + battery post.  So, I turned the key as if I was starting it
> put the cable to the post and let it turn.  When it sounded like it was
> going to turn over on its own, I took the cable off the post and released
> the key from "start" to "on".  But still no luck.  I didn't want to ruin
> anything so I stopped and thought I'd ask what to do next?
>
> - Bryon
> On Feb 11, 2012 5:07 PM, "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> That jumper wire will do the trick. You may find the connector under the
>> carpet near the seat is poor, or even detached - try to take a measurement
>> at the switch end of the wire (black/red thick one.  Look for 12V when you
>> turn the switch to start.  Hopefully it's just wiring not the switch.
>>
>> Yes, the switch should send 12V to the starter.  It sends it to that
>> connector, which is not quite the bolt - there's a pull-in winding that
>> gets
>> the motor truning and moves the gear to mesh with the flywheel before the
>> main contacts in the solenoid close.
>>
>> Dave.
>> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> ===================
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
>> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Bryon
>> Garvin
>> Sent: 12 February 2012 00:25
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] no start -- but just drove it!
>>
>> Did the quarter test this morning.  Starter turned.  That scared the
>> bejezus
>> out of me even though I was ready for it.  Anyway, now I'd just like to be
>> extra sure about my test here.  I put a probe to the small wire
>> (disconnected now) at the starter and test for voltage as I turn the key
>> to
>> start.  I get nothing.  That is supposed to have 12v correct?
>>
>> So, assuming that wire is bad (or ignition switch).....I can now put a
>> clip
>> lead on the lug where that wire went, touch the other end to the (+)
>> battery
>> terminal, and the starter should spin.  Yes?  That's essentially the same
>> thing as using the quarter right?  I just want to confirm that everything
>> is
>> still working before I proceed with tracking down the bad wire.
>>
>> I guess the main question I'm asking is that the ignition switch is
>> supposed
>> to send 12V to the starter, right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>  - Bryon
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Bryon Garvin
>> <spinningrooves at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> > Question:
>> >
>> > crawled under the car to do the starter check this morning.  I
>> > accidentally let the small wire from the front of the car touch the
>> > big wire/lug from the battery when I removed it.  I heard a noise up
>> > above, kind of maybe where the battery is located?
>> >
>> > Did I mess anything up?  Something I should check to see if I blew a
>> > fuse or anything?  I was taking care, but it just sprung toward the
>> > lug when it slipped out of my hand.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >  - Bryon, '71 Fastback
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Jim Adney <jadney at vwtype3.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 3 Feb 2012 at 11:52, Bryon Garvin wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Well, the car sat after this episode until today.  I finally have
>> >> > the time and weather to deal with it.  One question though, if I
>> >> > get under the car (not in gear! ) and try the "quarter procedure"
>> >> > and the car *doesn't*start, I assume then that I have a starter
>> >> > problem.  If that's the case, does the starter have to come off to do
>> further analysis?
>> >>
>> >> I would check a couple more things before pulling the starter. For
>> >> these, you need a voltmeter or a test light. (A test light just
>> >> checks for the presense or absense of voltage: the light is on or off
>> >> (or dim.)
>> >>
>> >> Gearshift in NEUTRAL!
>> >>
>> >> NOTE: Any time you put a wrench to a nut that has + battery voltage
>> >> on it, you must remove the battery ground strap first!
>> >>
>> >> Get a friend to help with the key. Crawl under the car and find a
>> >> clean place to clip your ground lead. Check that this is good by
>> >> touching the other lead to the large cable from the battery.
>> >>
>> >> Have the friend turn the key to START, while you put your probe on
>> >> the lug on the solenoid where the ignition switch wire comes from the
>> >> front. You should see voltage there when the key is turned to START.
>> >>
>> >> Put your probe on the LUG on the end of the large main cable from the
>> >> battery. You should see voltage there even when the key is turned to
>> >> START. If not, R/R both battery post connections. Check again. If it
>> >> still isn't good, your battery may be the problem.
>> >>
>> >> Put the probe on the end of the STUD the large lug above connects to.
>> >> There should be voltage there even when the key is turned to START.
>> >> If not, loosen and retighten the nut on that stud. Add some grease
>> >> there to keep out moisture.
>> >>
>> >> If all these things check out okay, remove the battery ground strap
>> >> and then the starter. It's probably the starter brushes. Most of the
>> >> time they just need to be freed up where they slip in their guides,
>> >> but eventually they need to be replaced. There are special brushes
>> >> for the Bosch starter motors with alum field windings. I don't think
>> >> you'll find them anywhere else, but I think I still have some.
>> >>
>> >> The special brushes don't come with copper pigtails attached. They
>> >> come with a hole in the brush that is metalized. You crush the old
>> >> brush with a pair of pliers and insert the end of the old pigtail in
>> >> the hole and solder it in.
>> >>
>> >> You CAN use normal brushes with pigtails, but you have to use a
>> >> solder and flux that will work with alum. Normal flux will not work.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *******************************
>> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> *******************************
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
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