[T3] hot start difficulty

[Dave Hall]

Below is my reply from 28 August, but extra thoughts 

Could be as you've got a rebuilt starter that the problem is in the
ignition/starter switch.  I'd recommend fitting a relay - clearly there's
not enough power to start the motor inching into engagement to make the main
contacts in the solenoid put full power on the motor.
Try shorting the two connections at the solenoid, which will put battery
power direct onto the starter system.  Take it out of gear and have the
handbrake firmly on!

If it turns the engine over OK (won't start as ignition is OFF!) it's
probably something in the wiring through the starter switch, or if it's an
AUTO maybe a problem with the selector.  Apparently some only start in Park
and some also in Neutral.  Jim will come back on that one, as I've never
played with an Auto.


MY REPLY 28th August...
 This is a very common problem.  I've experienced it on different Type 3s
for at least 30 years!  I'm sure it is due to heat-soak into the starter,
but you can't stop that happening!   There are several things that may help.

Check the connections to the motor and solenoid - they can become corroded.
Look at the 'idiot' lights in the speedo to check that they dim slightly
when you turn the key to 'start' (wait for fuel pump to stop whirring).  

The gear on the starter motor may need a little light lubrication to help it
slide along to engage the flywheel ring-gear.
If it has manual transmission, the bush in the housing on the transmission
may benefit from light lubrication.
The starter motor brushes may be worn, sticking, the brush springs are weak
or the commutator is dirty so the brushes are no longer making good contact.
This does seem very common, and tapping the starter motor in situ sometimes
proves it by starting.

For a long time I restarted immediately after stopping, and then shut off
again.  Next time it would start fine.

Eventually, after cleaning the motor out and having no more problems for
years, it started to do the same again.  At that point I added a starting
relay by the battery.  This is easy to do, isn't very expensive, and for
maybe 15 years has worked fine for me (I'm tempting fate now!).  It also
takes a load off the starter contacts in the ignition switch, which is
another benefit as some are not easy to replace, and all parts are becoming
harder to find quickly.   

Mine is a '71, but the wiring is the same in a '72.  On my right-hand drive
car, the thick red wire from the starter switch runs along under the carpet
on the battery side, and has a connector in the rear pasenger's footwell.  I
don't know if this is different for left-hand drive, as (I presume) you sit
on the other side of the car to the battery.
Anyway, separate that connector and extend the front part to the new relay,
to activating it, and the back part to the relay output, with a new wire
from the battery + to the relay output circuit. Add an earth wire to the
relay (or earth through the mounting) and it will very likely cure your
starting problem.

You generally will not need to have a 'new' starter motor, though that will
probably also cure it, as long as the wiring, switch or transmission bush
isn't the problem.  

We tend to try to fix things as cheaply as possible, but that does mean
getting 'down and dirty' and not everyone wants to do that.


Loads of theories have circulated about why this happens - mine is that
expansion of the armature allows it to move to a slightly different
position, leaving the brushes stuck higher in their holders than normal when
it all cools down again, and hence not making good contact when you want to
start.  That's why tapping the starter motor with a hammer often works.
Some bridge across the solenoid to battery terminals with a coin, which
works, but needs a long arm and lying on the ground.   I eventually chose to
fit the starting relay!

There's a page on my club website about it:-
http://home.clara.net/hallvw/starter.htm

Good luck sorting it.

Dave.
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
[mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Dan Badeer
Sent: 16 September 2012 02:01
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] hot start difficulty

I know this has been covered before, but I can't seem to find it.

New engine (175 miles)
rebuilt starter
starter and battery wiring is very good
new german voltage regulator
runs great
I get a click sometimes when trying to start, with nothing cranking; when
this happens it usually starts on the 2nd try battery is fully charged and
fairly new (I keep a trickle charger on it) no flat spot or hesitation while
driving; very smooth through the gears will usually fire on first crank It
wouldn't start today after a 40 minute drive at about 60 mph.  It cranked
just fine.....  After cool down, it fired right off, as usual.

Thanks in advance,
Dan
65 SB
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