[T3] Early vs Late Automatic

[Mike Fisher]

The 003 out of buses,411,412  is similar, but has higher geared ring &
pinions for more torque & Less top speed!


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Daniel K. Du Vall
<dduvall at 1peter4-10.org>wrote:

> I would love to own an auto trans T3.
>
> Just out of curiosity are there new or remanufactured TC out there?
> Having done some schooling I was just interested as it's a good thing to
> not install a used one on a rebuilt trans to keep from contaminating
> things. For that matter installing one without a good flushng on a trans
> that is known good.
>
> Daniel Du Vall
> http://1peter4-10.org
> http://volkswageninsanity.us
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org [mailto:
> type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Jim Adney
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:29 AM
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] Early vs Late Automatic
>
> On 12 Dec 2013 at 6:37, Adam Douglass wrote:
>
> > I keep hearing of "early" vs "late" units. How do I identify one vs
> > the other? What part numbers am I looking for? Where are the part
> > numbers located?
>
> There are actually 3 generations:
>
> '68-9 had 5-bolt flanges around the output shafts. These were eliminated
> in '70, making the construction slightly simpler, less leaky, and more
> reliable. Very early ones came with torque converters that had fewer,
> larger cooling fins. Those are less desirable, but the later TCs are an
> exact replacement.
>
> '70-1 lacks the 5-bolt output flanges and has a vacuum modulator with a
> diaphram section (the large diameter part) that's less than 1/2"
> thick. These are the best units in my opinion, but that's based on very
> little data. If your car is a '69-71, this is the style you'd hope to find.
>
> '72-3 looks just like the '70-1 except that the vacuum modulator has a
> diaphram section that's more than 1/2" thick. If your car is a '72-3, I
> hope you find one of these.
>
>
> On ALL of these ATs, it's important to know that the vacuum modulator is
> located in a place that's very vulnerable if the AT is sitting on the
> ground. If the VM gets bent, you may be able to straighten it, but it's
> likely that it will have to be replaced. And if you have to replace it, it
> MUST be adjusted, which is a fair bit of work.
>
> > I also hear that the automatic unit out of a Squareback is unique.
> > What is the difference? Again, what am I looking for?
>
> Fastback and Squareback ATs are the same, but they are different from all
> other VW ATs. Don't try to make do with a different version.
>
> > Any words of caution anyone has? I am pretty much stuck with this
> > unit, but I want to know what I am getting. It can help on the price
> > negotiation if I have more knowledge.
>
> If it's been dragged around on the ground the VM is toast. The late VM is
> expensive, and you can't replace it with the early one. Try to get it with
> the TC, but pull the TC off to check the snout on the tranny for wear where
> the seal seals. Polish that snout before you reinstall.
>
> There is a dome cover on the upper left side that is sealed with an
> O-ring. Replace that O-ring before you install the AT. It's just easy to
> get to then, and that O-ring always needs to be replaced. I have the
> O-rings or you may still be able to get them at a VW dealer.
>
> In general, our ATs have been very reliable. The most common problem is
> that leaky o-ring and leaks around the output shafts that leave the final
> drive dry and ruin the differential gears. Note that this unit takes both
> ATF and GL-5, so make sure to drain and fill both.
>
> If you take off the AT pan to check it out and drain the fluid. Don't
> overtighten the pan bolts. Tighten to the spec torque, wait 5 minutes,
> tighten again, wait 5 minutes, tighten again. I STRONGLY recommend a set of
> Belleville washers here to replace the split ring lockwashers that VW used.
> The Belleville washers will prevent deformation of the pan, as long as you
> don't overtighten the bolts.
>
> It's a bit of extra work, but you might be wise to remove the output
> flanges and replace the output seals before you install an old unit.
> If it's been sitting a long time, there could be rust there that would
> quickly destroy the seals and lead to oil loss and failure of the final
> drive.
>
> When you go to install it, pull the TC off and check the inner shaft.
> It will pull out and you'll want to spin it in your fingers as you install
> it to make SURE it's all the way in. Then install the TC. The TC isn't in
> correctly until the stump in its middle is flush with the mating face of
> the tranny. Check it with a straightedge. Make SURE this is correct BEFORE
> you mate it to the engine.
>
> These ATs have been so reliable that I have to ask, what went wrong with
> yours?
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
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