[T3] Turn Key Type 3 1600 For Sale (Colorado)

Keith Park topnotch at nycap.rr.com
Mon Feb 3 17:48:59 PST 2014


These statements confuse me a bit. I have never heard anyone complain about
the conversion. I have only ever heard praises. 


How many people have done this and instrumented the engine properly? I Built
a Raby engineered engine and he had NO other Squareback or Fastback
customers at the time, they will run and drive seemingly well with oil at
245 but how long do you think that will last?

I already have one part of it covered; 2.0 or bigger. The engine I am
sourcing is a 1.8 bottom end with a 2.0 top end. Builders like the 1.8
bottom because it is more robust. And the 2.0 top gives it the power it
needs. 

This is only true if your running the 2L heads (3 bolt) or the repro's that
may be on the market these days from LN engineering.

As far as cooling, you are the ONLY person I have ever heard say that they
could not get one cooled. What did you do to get cooling on yours?

I worked with Jake exhaustively and tried every mixture possible but on the
highway I was running 245 oil temps, Heads were cool but not enough air flow
for the oil.  The problem is that the T3 is a 2 stage fan, meant to work
with no pressure from the intake, the T4 is a squirrel cage single stage,
meant to work with forced flow on the highway.

The bellows conversion that I am using has worked for a few different
people. It allows the type 4 to cool just like a type 3. People over at the
shop talk forums sing the praises of the type 4 in a Square. Nate himself
stated in his build thread:

"Engine temps below 60mph seem to hover around 325-350F CHT and around
190-200F oil temp. Above at 70-80+ and in hard driving it can push 350-400F
CHT and 205-225F oil temp. "

At 70 I was running 245 (Calibrated) on the highway with a 2056 mild build,
no matter what I did with the mixture or exhaust system.  In WHAT ABIENT
temps were his numbers measured? WHERE were they measured?  HOW was the
gauge calibrated?  All things that need to be documented.  225 Is too high
on a cool day on the highway, just think what will happen when you cross the
desert and its 110F out? 400F heads are too hot on the highway, 425 is where
things start to go bad fast, again, what ambient temp were these measured?
325 is where I was running.

That is a pretty nice set of numbers if you ask me.

As far as an "enormous amount of work", all you have to do is the bellows
modification, modify a bus mustache bar to fit in the type 3 hanger or
modify the hanger to work with a bus mustache bar, cut down some manifolds
to make the Dellorto's fit under the lid, mount up some bus heater boxes and
exhaust and swap to the correct type 4 flex plate. 

Don’t forget the charging system mod for the alternator, the modifications
to get the throttle cable to work properly, the wiring mods, getting the
stock Bus Tin to fit (it barely does)and the right combo of tin, SO much
fiddling around!

I may have cut a lot of the work out because I have an automatic in my
Squareback. Most of the complaints I have seen is getting the right clutch
and pressure plate to work between type 3 standards and type 4 engines. All
I have to do is get a type 4 flex plate. It is a direct bolt in because of
the fact that type 3 and 4 used the same torque converter and automatic
transmission.

This may be true, the stock IRS tranny wont take the torque, I went with a
built freeway flyer. 

I am also lucky in the fact that I work for a manufacturing company that is
proficient in welding and fabricating. This way I can take advantage of
those with the skills I don't possess at a fraction of the cost. Always nice
when you have laser cutting, tig and mig welding and a full array of
equipment to help you along the way.

This is a HUGE help.

I do have a few things to figure out still. I have to get the alternator
wiring sorted out with a Type 2 voltage regulator. I have to decided on
mechanical or electric fuel pump. I am also still on the fence as to what
distributor I want to run. It is nice that I have plenty of time to figure
this all out. I am also looking forward to having something that looks stock
from the outside and is anything but stock under the hood. And not having to
push it up the mountain passes will be nice too. ;)

For me, it wasn’t worth it!  my gas mileage also went into the toilet and
the gas I needed to run was 92 octane.  I may still put the 2056 back in
there WITH AN OIL COOLER as I have so much money tied up in it, and the hard
work is done, its 11hrs to convert back (including tranny)but if we go over
$4 a gallon again, Ill probably rebuild the T3.  Read thru the Aircooled
Technology site, Jakes technical articles and also check out LN
engineering... lots of stuff to know to prevent disasters.  T4 engines have
lots of good things about them and lots of problems too, the problem is that
the problems are much more expensive with the T4.  Keep in mind too, I want
an engine that will go in there and last 150Kmi or more, with only valve
jobs needed. I put a lot of miles on my car, mostly highway, and have heavy
loads and things to tow.  The T3 engine will do that, albeit slower but much
cheaper. The T4 will too but only if its built properly and you cant get
many of the quality parts you need anymore at any price.  The new cam and
lifters cost me $500 alone 
For the T4!

Sorry... bringing back headaches of the past.....

Keith



Adam


On Monday, February 3, 2014 5:19 PM, Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
wrote:
 
Take it from my personal experience, don’t even BOTHER doing a T4 conversion
without going to a 2L or bigger, its an ENORMOUS amount of work and a HUGE
Increase in cost for any build or maintenance, its VERY hard to get some T4
parts.

It’s a huge job just getting the T4 motor all fitted in there!

Ive got a 2056 sitting in my garage because I converted back to the T3 5
years ago... I may try it again but I would never go down this road from
that start again...  and T4 engines will not pull enough cooling air thru
the T3 intake system on the Squares and Fasty's.

Keith


Top Notch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com 
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback "Hothe"
65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
87 golf "Winterat"
93 RX7 "Redstur"



-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
[mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Adam
Douglass
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 3:52 AM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Turn Key Type 3 1600 For Sale (Colorado)

After considering a full FI system for my Squareback, and realizing that I
not longer had the right heads, I have decided to part with the engine. I am
in the process of purchasing a 1.8, 914, type 4 to put in its place.

Because of this I will be selling the engine in my car compete minus the fan
shroud. I will need the shroud for the type 4 conversion.

If you are interested, please follow the link to my ad on The Samba.  All
information and pictures are in the ad. I will have youTube videos uploaded
later this afternoon of cold start and idle. 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1593011


Adam
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