[T3] ZDDP options

[Adriel Rowley]

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1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - Located in Coastal San Diego County
1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ


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> From: dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 13:03:11 -0600
> Subject: Re: [T3] ZDDP options
>
>
> On 15 Jan 2014 at 9:55, B Fye wrote:
>
>> I'm going to get some resistance for this... But I have talked with
>> the folks at Engle Cams about it. After your cam and lifters are
>> seasoned and broken in, additive is no longer needed. After the first
>> (non break in) oil change, I run the cheapest non synthetic on the
>> shelf.
>
> I'm gonna step in and agree with this. There's a lot to be said for doing a
> good break-in, but after that I just use a decent oil. What I've been buying
> lately is a 15W-40 house brand Diesel oil that comes in 2 gallon jugs. If
> you read the small print on the back, it's also labeled for SJ use, so it's
> not the latest S rated oil, but that's probably a good thing. The latest S
> grade oils have reduced (or eliminated (I don't know which) some of the
> additives for the sake of the catylitic converters. Since we don't have
> those, the earlier oils are actually better for us.
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yes I've heard that Bryan. Jim I have heard that about with Diesel oil and
> catalytic converters too. What I don't understand is a lot of diesels have
> had cats on them for years. When I worked on school buses we had some as
> old as 97s with cats on them. They had a Ford B-700 chassis with a 5.9
> Cummins engine. The cat was built in the mufflers and we had to replace one
> of them and it was a $2300 muffler. That's how I remember that. So how is
> the additives in the diesel oils like Rotella and Delo not harming these set
> ups in the later model Diesel? Guess it is not important as far as our
> cars are concerned. Maybe the cats are different in these than the gas.
> Also they have been putting cats on cars here in the US since 1975 and it
> took them that long to figure out this stuff damages the cat?
>
> Dennis
>
I have tried explaining this in the past, but seems it didn't get through...

Diesels have had exhaust treatment since 1985, which of course started in
Comufornia. An example of this is my 1985 300TD-T California version which 
had a early design of soot filter called a trap oxidizer, but now has a 
catalytic oxidizer which doesn't have near the issues and robs tad less 
performance. Basically it is a can with honeycomb of material that either 
scrubbed (trap) or oxidizes.I actually am one of only a handful that prefers 
having this, as the rest convert to an exhaust without. I actually based my 
purchase decision on her having this, as care about our environment.

Side note: In about 1987, Mercedes started having trap oxidizers ceramic 
innards breaking apart with most causing turbo damage. This led to a recall
that was supposed to replace the entire exhaust system, including either a 
strait pipe or oxidizer, and the turbo if it showed damage. Dealers being what 
they are took advantage of the  wording and many just dumped the shards out of 
the turbo and then when the turbo finally gave out, had the owner pay for the 
replacement, including for labor that had been already done! Nice, huh? So
not everything the E.P.A. demands (while trouncing liberty) works... 

These anti-soot devices have now gotten to the point they are so fine of a 
soot filter the metals and sulfur is plugging them up, so Z.D.D.P. has been 
drastically cut back. I.I.R.C., the urea doesn't work properly either, which 
is the second option for reducing soot levels.  so CI+4 and CJ is the current 
meeting this demand. So, diesel oil will not have the 1970's levels of Z.D.D.P. 
as this current specification, which was the first change since the 
aforementioned circa. Eventually, diesel oil will go the way of gasser oil. ;(

I wouldn't believe Engle too much as if their camshaft wears out sooner, 
then one would have to replace it sooner, were as the oil companies be glad
to put less additives in and charge the same price. Now if I saw an 
independent study, most defiantly would reconsider. In this society, got to
follow the money!  

In the end, all both sides have been able to show is conjecture. But, with 
engines running 500,000 plus, I am not going to risk it!


Thank you so very much!
Adriel