[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 24 / mileage

Ross Clarke clarkeross28 at internode.on.net
Fri Jul 25 17:00:21 PDT 2014


Yes, you are correct Dave!  I had forgotten the US gallon is lest than our imperial unit!

I will do a conversion and get my American adjustments.  The mpg I quoted will make more sense to our USA friends across the pond.

Regards,

Ross ( from Aussie )

Ross Clarke
Sent from my iPad

> On 26 Jul 2014, at 9:07 am, type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org wrote:
> 
> Send type3-vwtype3.org mailing list submissions to
>    type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of type3-vwtype3.org digest..."
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. oils (Fiesta Cranberry)
>   2. Re: oils (Jim Adney)
>   3. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23 / mileage.
>      (Ross Clarke)
>   4. Re: MPGs?? (Jim Adney)
>   5. Re: oils (Dennis Stiefel)
>   6. Re: MPGs?? (Dennis Stiefel)
>   7. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23 / mileage.
>      (Dave Hall)
>   8. Re: MPGs?? (Dave Hall)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:50:30 -0700
> From: Fiesta Cranberry <fiestacranberry at gmail.com>
> To: VW list <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> Subject: [T3] oils
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD=5u+Jm_F9GAC9z2LzJnQpjutUk0SASsvX+o+HuJNZbhgRSkQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi there
> You may have the reason for this apparent valve train failure in the very
> oil you have "stashed."  Modern oils are fundamentally better in many ways
> and for many reasons, their lack of ZDDP notwithstanding.
> But, Pennzoil, at least the old "stash," was, (and, perhaps still is), an
> ash based oil...never recommended by any air cooled manufacturers back in
> the day.   Quaker State, Valvoline, Castrol and Kendall, (and a few
> others), were the oils for air cooleds from VW to Porsche.   While the old
> Pennzoil "might" have had adequate ZDDP, the break down of ash-based oils
> at normal air cooled operating temperatures make it a dicey choice at best.
> I'd get rid of that stash ASAP.
> Hope this helps.
> Best regards,
> FE Meek
> 
> Hi all,
> Sorry, I made a boo boo.  It wasn't Pennzoil, it was Castrol [?]
> 
> Lori & The Baroness
> 
> -- 
> "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
> won out over it."
>                                                  ---Elwood P. Dowd
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 16:40:20 -0500
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] oils
> Message-ID: <53D2CEC4.15363.1E84E97 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2014 at 13:50, Fiesta Cranberry wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, I made a boo boo.  It wasn't Pennzoil, it was Castrol [?]
> 
> I doubt if the brand really makes any difference. Look at the label. 
> You'll find a circle with some letters around it that say something 
> like SG or SL or SM. What do you see on those labels?
> 
> -- 
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 07:49:27 +1000
> From: Ross Clarke <clarkeross28 at internode.on.net>
> To: "type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org"
>    <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23 /
>    mileage.
> Message-ID: <0D8B4515-E37D-47CB-9E9D-C8BB3D29E91E at internode.on.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hello everyone,
> My 1966 Fastback with standard solex carbs and a standard 1600 single port motor usually gets close to 40mpg on a trip in good conditions.  When the mountains get higher I usually get 36 - 38 mpg.  I drive at about 50 to 55 mph and coast down hills.  Of course on the freeways where speed of 60 - 65 mph is deemed safe my mpg drops to 33 - 35 mpg.
> 
> I keep the car in good tune and tyres at correct psi and being a fastback I guess that helps with the good mpg. 
> 
> Ross ( in Aussie )
> 
> Ross Clarke
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 26 Jul 2014, at 6:47 am, type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org wrote:
>> 
>> Send type3-vwtype3.org mailing list submissions to
>>   type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>   type3-vwtype3.org-owner at lists.vwtype3.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of type3-vwtype3.org digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. oils and old oils... (FE Meek)
>>  2. MPGs?? (Dennis Stiefel)
>>  3. Re: MPGs?? (Jim Adney)
>>  4. Re: MPGs?? (Brian Fye)
>>  5. Re: MPGs?? (Dennis Stiefel)
>>  6. Re: MPGs?? (Soren Jacobsen)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:18:24 -0600
>> From: FE Meek <ftalker at gmail.com>
>> To: "type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org"
>>   <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: [T3] oils and old oils...
>> Message-ID: <EB835175-67DE-4FD5-9F06-DD6384D3CA62 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hi there
>> You may have the reason for this apparent valve train failure in the very oil you have "stashed."  Modern oils are fundamentally better in many ways and for many reasons, their lack of ZDDP notwithstanding.  
>> But, Pennzoil, at least the old "stash," was, (and, perhaps still is), an ash based oil...never recommended by any air cooled manufacturers back in the day.   Quaker State, Valvoline, Castrol and Kendall, (and a few others), were the oils for air cooleds from VW to Porsche.   While the old Pennzoil "might" have had adequate ZDDP, the break down of ash-based oils at normal air cooled operating temperatures make it a dicey choice at best.  I'd get rid of that stash ASAP. 
>> Hope this helps.
>> Best regards,
>> FE Meek
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:16:57 -0500
>> From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <011601cfa7ae$83ac77e0$8b0567a0$@dekalbk12.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower than I
>> expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 23 MPG today
>> when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly freeway and open high way
>> driving with an average speed around 70 MPH. This was about what I got when
>> I  had the 1641 with the progressive Webber back in the 80s.  I've checked
>> the voltage again it's 14.3 V. Going to re check the ignition timing this
>> weekend and I guess after that I'll check the fuel pressure.  The car is
>> running fine except with that slight skipping and a little smoke when it's
>> first started cold for the first minute which it's done since we first got
>> it running.  Several months ago someone suggested the fuel gage we have at
>> the school may be off so I guess if it checks out ok I may just get another
>> gage and see.  Any way is there anything else I need to check?  The engine
>> has over 2500 miles now on it.         
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dennis Stiefel
>> 
>> 72 Fastback FI MT
>> 
>> 71 STD. Beetle
>> 
>> 67 Ford F-100 (hart of Crown Vic)
>> 
>> Rainsville, AL
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:37:40 -0500
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <53D1C2F4.15551.D9F3E at jadney.vwtype3.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> 
>>> On 24 Jul 2014 at 21:16, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower than I
>>> expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 23 MPG today
>>> when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly freeway and open high way
>>> driving with an average speed around 70 MPH.
>> 
>> For a '72 FI at 70 mi/hr that's pretty typical. If you want better, 
>> let up on the gas pedal. 65 helps and 60 makes a big difference.
>> 
>> -- 
>> *******************************
>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> *******************************
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:50:48 -0700
>> From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CACJsKZRsJnTUvvfAJvXxTvgK6Wd1tXWdz4aC=dnLEjv7RtRj7Q at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> These cars were geared for national speed limits that were lower.
>>>> On Jul 24, 2014 7:37 PM, "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 24 Jul 2014 at 21:16, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower than
>>> I
>>>> expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 23 MPG
>>> today
>>>> when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly freeway and open high
>>> way
>>>> driving with an average speed around 70 MPH.
>>> 
>>> For a '72 FI at 70 mi/hr that's pretty typical. If you want better,
>>> let up on the gas pedal. 65 helps and 60 makes a big difference.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *******************************
>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> *******************************
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>>> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
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>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 07:47:06 -0500
>> From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <012601cfa806$8b5f6a30$a21e3e90$@dekalbk12.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> These cars were geared for national speed limits that were lower.
>>>> On Jul 24, 2014 7:37 PM, "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 24 Jul 2014 at 21:16, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower 
>>>> than
>>> I
>>>> expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 23 MPG
>>> today
>>>> when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly freeway and open 
>>>> high
>>> way
>>>> driving with an average speed around 70 MPH.
>>> 
>>> For a '72 FI at 70 mi/hr that's pretty typical. If you want better, 
>>> let up on the gas pedal. 65 helps and 60 makes a big difference.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *******************************
>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> *******************************
>> I usually just drive the car around town so on a typical day she hardly gets
>> over 55.  Sounds like I need to check the MPGs under these conditions.  I
>> average 70 on those trips because on certain stretches of the interstate I
>> was on if you don't drive at least that fast you could get run over.  When
>> my father drove it to work back in the 70s with the stock set up he said he
>> got about 28 but that was 2 lane high way where the speed limit was no
>> higher than 55.  I talked to some people who had a 70 notch this pasted
>> weekend.  It had an automatic with some kind of duel carb set up and claimed
>> 31 MPGs but they did say they averaged 65 to 60 on their speed.  Still 31
>> sounded a little high to me but I guess not imposable.      
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:43:22 -0700
>> From: Soren Jacobsen <snj at blef.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <DA3EF73C-2BCE-4499-A5D3-8EF9ABA9F666 at blef.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2014, at 5:47 AM, Dennis Stiefel <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I usually just drive the car around town so on a typical day she hardly gets
>>> over 55.  Sounds like I need to check the MPGs under these conditions.  I
>>> average 70 on those trips because on certain stretches of the interstate I
>>> was on if you don't drive at least that fast you could get run over.  When
>>> my father drove it to work back in the 70s with the stock set up he said he
>>> got about 28 but that was 2 lane high way where the speed limit was no
>>> higher than 55.  I talked to some people who had a 70 notch this pasted
>>> weekend.  It had an automatic with some kind of duel carb set up and claimed
>>> 31 MPGs but they did say they averaged 65 to 60 on their speed.  Still 31
>>> sounded a little high to me but I guess not imposable.      
>> 
>> Speed makes a huge difference in economy.  I generally cruise at 55MPH in my 1965 Variant, and my mileage hovers around 31 at that speed.  I've had a few tanks hit 34MPG, but keep in mind that this is the sort of thing you have to average out over an extended period of time.  You'll never get the tank filled up to exactly the same point.  I have a couple of things working in my favor on that front: 1) I almost always fill up at the same gas station, and the same pump at that station.  2) I have an early car, so I can see into the tank.  I can visualize the fuel level quite well when it gets near the top, so I burp the tank until it gets to my usual fill level.  I guess you 68-up guys just fill until the pump automatically stops?
>> 
>> Soren
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23
>> *************************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:21:23 -0500
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
> Message-ID: <53D2D863.6403.20DE507 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2014 at 7:47, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>> 
>> I usually just drive the car around town so on a typical day she hardly gets
>> over 55.  Sounds like I need to check the MPGs under these conditions.  I
>> average 70 on those trips because on certain stretches of the interstate I
>> was on if you don't drive at least that fast you could get run over.  When
>> my father drove it to work back in the 70s with the stock set up he said he
>> got about 28 but that was 2 lane high way where the speed limit was no
>> higher than 55.  I talked to some people who had a 70 notch this pasted
>> weekend.  It had an automatic with some kind of duel carb set up and claimed
>> 31 MPGs but they did say they averaged 65 to 60 on their speed.  Still 31
>> sounded a little high to me but I guess not imposable.      
> 
> The mileage you get with any given car is strongly dependent on 
> speed. You'll get your best mileage in your top gear at a speed 
> that's just high enough to make the engine "comfortable." In our 
> cars, that's something around 45 or so.
> 
> As your speed increases, the wind drag increases roughly with the 
> SQUARE of your velocity, so your gas mileage will drop stunningly 
> quickly as your speed goes up.
> 
> We get in trouble when we start to compare older Type 3s with later 
> ones, since there's an unfortunate tradeoff between NOX emissions and 
> gas mileage. The FI cars were designed to meet the emission 
> requirements that started in '67 and got tighter every year after 
> that. So under the same driving conditions, a '66 will always pollute 
> more and get better gas mileage than a '72.
> 
> I did some test drives a few years ago, with my FI '71 and got ~26 
> mi/gal at 65 mi/hr and ~29 mi/gal at 60 mi/hr. Those are the best 
> numbers you should ever expect to see in your '72, unless you've got 
> a tail wind. The earlier cars, with OE carbs, get significantly 
> better mi/gal, but pollute significantly more.
> 
> -- 
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:23:10 -0500
> From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] oils
> Message-ID: <013701cfa857$052f70d0$0f8e5270$@dekalbk12.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> Sorry, I made a boo boo.  It wasn't Pennzoil, it was Castrol [?]
> 
> Lori & The Baroness
> 
> I try not to debate folks on line but I have to say we have used Castrol for
> many years in my family's air cooled VWs without any oil related issue.  Not
> counting the zinc issue which can be fixed through an additive. As long as
> it has the API seal on the container it's good regardless of the brand.
> 
> Dennis Stiefel
> 72 Fastback FI MT
> 71 STD. Beetle
> 67 Ford F-100 (hart of Crown Vic)
> Rainsville, AL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:53:29 -0500
> From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
> Message-ID: <013f01cfa85b$415fc740$c41f55c0$@dekalbk12.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> 
> The mileage you get with any given car is strongly dependent on speed.
> You'll get your best mileage in your top gear at a speed that's just high
> enough to make the engine "comfortable." In our cars, that's something
> around 45 or so.
> 
> As your speed increases, the wind drag increases roughly with the SQUARE of
> your velocity, so your gas mileage will drop stunningly quickly as your
> speed goes up.
> 
> We get in trouble when we start to compare older Type 3s with later ones,
> since there's an unfortunate tradeoff between NOX emissions and gas mileage.
> The FI cars were designed to meet the emission requirements that started in
> '67 and got tighter every year after that. So under the same driving
> conditions, a '66 will always pollute more and get better gas mileage than a
> '72.
> 
> I did some test drives a few years ago, with my FI '71 and got ~26 mi/gal at
> 65 mi/hr and ~29 mi/gal at 60 mi/hr. Those are the best numbers you should
> ever expect to see in your '72, unless you've got a tail wind. The earlier
> cars, with OE carbs, get significantly better mi/gal, but pollute
> significantly more.
> 
> -- 
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I really did check it that much on this car during my youth I just remember
> getting low 20s with the 1641.  The other vehicles we drive doesn't have
> this wide of a margin between driving 60-65 and driving 70.  My Frankenstein
> truck that has an engine, trans and rear end out of late 90s early 2000s
> crown vic police cars gets about 19-20 if you take it easy in it and about
> 17-18 if you get aggressive in it. I use to have a Dasher diesel that would
> get 42 MPGs didn't matter if you drove it 50 or 75.  But then again it
> didn't have enough power to pull the hat off your head and as far as
> emissions go you could look in the rear view mirror and see the smoke
> rolling behind you every time you pushed the accelerator pedal down(talk
> about your NOX emissions I know you can't see the NOX part).   
> 
> Dennis Stiefel
> 72 Fastback FI MT
> 71 STD. Beetle
> 67 Ford F-100 (hart of Crown Vic)
> Rainsville, AL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 23:56:57 +0100
> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23 /
>    mileage.
> Message-ID: <997F91AA563F4059B8DDFCF63F551EE0 at DavidPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> That's Imperial gallons, Ross, rather than US gallons!  US gallons are about
> 80% the size.   They must have forgotten to pack a set of liquid measures on
> the Mayflower. ;-)
> There's always something that gets left behind when you go abroad!
> 
> I'd happily change ours for US ones if the price here in the UK was what it
> is in the USA!
> 
> Dave
> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
> ===================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> On Behalf Of Ross Clarke
> Sent: 25 July 2014 22:49
> To: type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23 / mileage.
> 
> Hello everyone,
> My 1966 Fastback with standard solex carbs and a standard 1600 single port
> motor usually gets close to 40mpg on a trip in good conditions.  When the
> mountains get higher I usually get 36 - 38 mpg.  I drive at about 50 to 55
> mph and coast down hills.  Of course on the freeways where speed of 60 - 65
> mph is deemed safe my mpg drops to 33 - 35 mpg.
> 
> I keep the car in good tune and tyres at correct psi and being a fastback I
> guess that helps with the good mpg. 
> 
> Ross ( in Aussie )
> 
> Ross Clarke
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>>> On 26 Jul 2014, at 6:47 am, type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Send type3-vwtype3.org mailing list submissions to
>>   type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> 
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>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. oils and old oils... (FE Meek)
>>  2. MPGs?? (Dennis Stiefel)
>>  3. Re: MPGs?? (Jim Adney)
>>  4. Re: MPGs?? (Brian Fye)
>>  5. Re: MPGs?? (Dennis Stiefel)
>>  6. Re: MPGs?? (Soren Jacobsen)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:18:24 -0600
>> From: FE Meek <ftalker at gmail.com>
>> To: "type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org"
>>   <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: [T3] oils and old oils...
>> Message-ID: <EB835175-67DE-4FD5-9F06-DD6384D3CA62 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hi there
>> You may have the reason for this apparent valve train failure in the very
> oil you have "stashed."  Modern oils are fundamentally better in many ways
> and for many reasons, their lack of ZDDP notwithstanding.  
>> But, Pennzoil, at least the old "stash," was, (and, perhaps still is), an
> ash based oil...never recommended by any air cooled manufacturers back in
> the day.   Quaker State, Valvoline, Castrol and Kendall, (and a few others),
> were the oils for air cooleds from VW to Porsche.   While the old Pennzoil
> "might" have had adequate ZDDP, the break down of ash-based oils at normal
> air cooled operating temperatures make it a dicey choice at best.  I'd get
> rid of that stash ASAP. 
>> Hope this helps.
>> Best regards,
>> FE Meek
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:16:57 -0500
>> From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <011601cfa7ae$83ac77e0$8b0567a0$@dekalbk12.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower 
>> than I expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 
>> 23 MPG today when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly 
>> freeway and open high way driving with an average speed around 70 MPH. 
>> This was about what I got when I  had the 1641 with the progressive 
>> Webber back in the 80s.  I've checked the voltage again it's 14.3 V. 
>> Going to re check the ignition timing this weekend and I guess after 
>> that I'll check the fuel pressure.  The car is running fine except 
>> with that slight skipping and a little smoke when it's first started 
>> cold for the first minute which it's done since we first got it 
>> running.  Several months ago someone suggested the fuel gage we have 
>> at the school may be off so I guess if it checks out ok I may just get
> another gage and see.  Any way is there anything else I need to check?  The
> engine
>> has over 2500 miles now on it.         
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dennis Stiefel
>> 
>> 72 Fastback FI MT
>> 
>> 71 STD. Beetle
>> 
>> 67 Ford F-100 (hart of Crown Vic)
>> 
>> Rainsville, AL
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 0724/b366280c/attachment.htm>
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:37:40 -0500
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <53D1C2F4.15551.D9F3E at jadney.vwtype3.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> 
>>> On 24 Jul 2014 at 21:16, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower 
>>> than I expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 
>>> 23 MPG today when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly 
>>> freeway and open high way driving with an average speed around 70 MPH.
>> 
>> For a '72 FI at 70 mi/hr that's pretty typical. If you want better, 
>> let up on the gas pedal. 65 helps and 60 makes a big difference.
>> 
>> --
>> *******************************
>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> *******************************
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:50:48 -0700
>> From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> <CACJsKZRsJnTUvvfAJvXxTvgK6Wd1tXWdz4aC=dnLEjv7RtRj7Q at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> These cars were geared for national speed limits that were lower.
>>>> On Jul 24, 2014 7:37 PM, "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 24 Jul 2014 at 21:16, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower 
>>>> than
>>> I
>>>> expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 23 MPG
>>> today
>>>> when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly freeway and open 
>>>> high
>>> way
>>>> driving with an average speed around 70 MPH.
>>> 
>>> For a '72 FI at 70 mi/hr that's pretty typical. If you want better, 
>>> let up on the gas pedal. 65 helps and 60 makes a big difference.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *******************************
>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> *******************************
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org 
>>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>>> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was 
>> scrubbed...
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>> <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/2014
>> 0724/09fdef9a/attachment.htm>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 07:47:06 -0500
>> From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <012601cfa806$8b5f6a30$a21e3e90$@dekalbk12.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> These cars were geared for national speed limits that were lower.
>>>> On Jul 24, 2014 7:37 PM, "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 24 Jul 2014 at 21:16, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have been checking my gas mileage here lately and it's been lower 
>>>> than
>>> I
>>>> expected.  When I filled up a copula of weeks ago I got about 23 MPG
>>> today
>>>> when I filled up today it was 22.  This was mostly freeway and open 
>>>> high
>>> way
>>>> driving with an average speed around 70 MPH.
>>> 
>>> For a '72 FI at 70 mi/hr that's pretty typical. If you want better, 
>>> let up on the gas pedal. 65 helps and 60 makes a big difference.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *******************************
>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> *******************************
>> I usually just drive the car around town so on a typical day she 
>> hardly gets over 55.  Sounds like I need to check the MPGs under these 
>> conditions.  I average 70 on those trips because on certain stretches 
>> of the interstate I was on if you don't drive at least that fast you 
>> could get run over.  When my father drove it to work back in the 70s 
>> with the stock set up he said he got about 28 but that was 2 lane high 
>> way where the speed limit was no higher than 55.  I talked to some 
>> people who had a 70 notch this pasted weekend.  It had an automatic 
>> with some kind of duel carb set up and claimed
>> 31 MPGs but they did say they averaged 65 to 60 on their speed.  Still 31
>> sounded a little high to me but I guess not imposable.      
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:43:22 -0700
>> From: Soren Jacobsen <snj at blef.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
>> Message-ID: <DA3EF73C-2BCE-4499-A5D3-8EF9ABA9F666 at blef.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2014, at 5:47 AM, Dennis Stiefel <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I usually just drive the car around town so on a typical day she 
>>> hardly gets over 55.  Sounds like I need to check the MPGs under 
>>> these conditions.  I average 70 on those trips because on certain 
>>> stretches of the interstate I was on if you don't drive at least that 
>>> fast you could get run over.  When my father drove it to work back in 
>>> the 70s with the stock set up he said he got about 28 but that was 2 
>>> lane high way where the speed limit was no higher than 55.  I talked 
>>> to some people who had a 70 notch this pasted weekend.  It had an 
>>> automatic with some kind of duel carb set up and claimed
>>> 31 MPGs but they did say they averaged 65 to 60 on their speed.  Still 31
>>> sounded a little high to me but I guess not imposable.      
>> 
>> Speed makes a huge difference in economy.  I generally cruise at 55MPH in
> my 1965 Variant, and my mileage hovers around 31 at that speed.  I've had a
> few tanks hit 34MPG, but keep in mind that this is the sort of thing you
> have to average out over an extended period of time.  You'll never get the
> tank filled up to exactly the same point.  I have a couple of things working
> in my favor on that front: 1) I almost always fill up at the same gas
> station, and the same pump at that station.  2) I have an early car, so I
> can see into the tank.  I can visualize the fuel level quite well when it
> gets near the top, so I burp the tank until it gets to my usual fill level.
> I guess you 68-up guys just fill until the pump automatically stops?
>> 
>> Soren
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org 
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 23
>> *************************************************
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:06:09 +0100
> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
> Message-ID: <E3AE7A36662045BABE7F41CC5D02469B at DavidPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I did a CO test with my 1972 FI Fastback and it was about 0.5%.  I usually
> tuned the twin carb Variant for around 3% CO.  You could smell the exhaust a
> bit, but many classic cars are more like 6% or more, and smell of pollution.
> 
> 
> When an AA mechanic (AAA in USA?) adjusted my son's Polo 'by ear', he left
> it with about 7% CO, which failed the next emissions test, but I adjusted it
> in the garage 'by ear' for fastest tickover and a fraction richer, and it
> passed fine at around 2% when the tester checked again.
> 
> Dave UK VW Type 3&4 Club
> ========================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
> Sent: 25 July 2014 23:21
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] MPGs??
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2014 at 7:47, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>> 
>> I usually just drive the car around town so on a typical day she 
>> hardly gets over 55.  Sounds like I need to check the MPGs under these 
>> conditions.  I average 70 on those trips because on certain stretches 
>> of the interstate I was on if you don't drive at least that fast you 
>> could get run over.  When my father drove it to work back in the 70s 
>> with the stock set up he said he got about 28 but that was 2 lane high 
>> way where the speed limit was no higher than 55.  I talked to some 
>> people who had a 70 notch this pasted weekend.  It had an automatic 
>> with some kind of duel carb set up and claimed
>> 31 MPGs but they did say they averaged 65 to 60 on their speed.  Still 31
>> sounded a little high to me but I guess not imposable.      
> 
> The mileage you get with any given car is strongly dependent on speed.
> You'll get your best mileage in your top gear at a speed that's just high
> enough to make the engine "comfortable." In our cars, that's something
> around 45 or so.
> 
> As your speed increases, the wind drag increases roughly with the SQUARE of
> your velocity, so your gas mileage will drop stunningly quickly as your
> speed goes up.
> 
> We get in trouble when we start to compare older Type 3s with later ones,
> since there's an unfortunate tradeoff between NOX emissions and gas mileage.
> The FI cars were designed to meet the emission requirements that started in
> '67 and got tighter every year after that. So under the same driving
> conditions, a '66 will always pollute more and get better gas mileage than a
> '72.
> 
> I did some test drives a few years ago, with my FI '71 and got ~26 mi/gal at
> 65 mi/hr and ~29 mi/gal at 60 mi/hr. Those are the best numbers you should
> ever expect to see in your '72, unless you've got a tail wind. The earlier
> cars, with OE carbs, get significantly better mi/gal, but pollute
> significantly more.
> 
> -- 
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
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> Subject: Digest Footer
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