[T3] brake lights, horn, signals and back up lights don't work
K O
visualeyes108 at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 21 21:36:37 PDT 2014
Power through fuses; the head lights and parking lights come on.
BUT tail lights, brake lights, turn signals & back up lights still dead.
a .2 volt leak occurs over the battery..
any ideas as to WHY?
thanx, KO
I don't shop where I can't charge.
________________________________
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric (Keith Park)
2. Re: Car won't start... (Keith Park)
3. Re: Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric (Adriel Rowley)
4. Re: Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric (Daniel K. Du Vall)
5. Re: Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric (Adriel Rowley)
6. Re: Starter Solenoid Testing (Dave Hall)
7. Re: Car won't start... (Dave Hall)
8. Re: Starter Solenoid Testing (Dave Hall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:11:46 -0400
From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
Message-ID: <AA.12.06380.628E6445 at cdptpa-oedge03>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MSD or McMaster carr, you can get whatever quality you want
depending on how much you want to spend.
Keith
Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.om
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback "Hothe"
65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
93 RX7 "Redstur"
87 Golf "Winterat"
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of Adriel Rowley
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 11:48 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
Anyone have any experience with BelMetric? Looks like they might actually
have quality hardware; found them through a Porsche site. Sick of dealing
with junk hardware and want smooth interaction.
I was looking at them for the Mercedes' horn screws, and thinking if I do
order, be good to get a few other bits to make shipping worth it. I know the
M8 is common, but what other specifications? Course or fine? Length? Any
other sizes?
Thank you so very much!
Adriel
P.S. Came home to find the wire arrived. Made of polyethylene plastic, so
has a soft matte finish and colors are WAY different than the same German
color. Bothers my O.C.D., but then if I used the exact, the new custodian
wouldn't know what was replaced. ;p
-------------------------
1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:37:45 -0400
From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Car won't start...
Message-ID: <7F.DC.24634.D3EE6445 at cdptpa-oedge01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
With the ignition on, check voltage at the coil, you can manually work the
points with a screwdriver (touch ONLY the insulated handle)and see if you
can get a spark out of the center of the coil to ground by placing that wire
close to it. Listen for fuel pump. no starts if its an FI problem can only
be a couple things, bad head temp sensor, open circuit to trigger contacts
or dirty contacts or a bad ground at the ground gang.
Keith
Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.om
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback ?Hothe?
65 Squareback ?Eggcrate?
65 Notchback ?El Baja Rojo?
93 RX7 ?Redstur?
87 Golf ?Winterat?
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of J. Jonik
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:24 PM
To: Type 3; type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Car won't start...
My non-working car's been flat-bedded home.? ''71 w/ ''73 engine, FI, stick.
Just this for now.?? How to eliminate Ignition Switch as the problem?
Symptoms:Key turn does it's thing with fuel relay. Nothing otherwise.
Crossing Solenoid with Starter (key off) produces whirring noise.Car
backfired, lightly, twice when it died.
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:48:10 -0700
From: Adriel Rowley <adriel_rowley at hotmail.com>
To: "type3 at vwtype3.org" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
Message-ID: <COL131-W11A06F4E0DC2E8534D06DF9D940 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Keith:
MSD??
So no common hardware sizes? Glad I have a bin and a bottle of spare hardware!
Also, this was a good suggestion by another:?www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200495414_200495414 I had a magnetic bowl, but was too small. Being clumsy, keep knocking the paper bowl over.
Thank you so very much!
Adriel
-------------------------
1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
----------------------------------------
> From: topnotch at nycap.rr.com
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:11:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>
> MSD or McMaster carr, you can get whatever quality you want
> depending on how much you want to spend.
>
> Keith
>
>
> Topnotch Restorations
> topnotch at nycap.rr.om
> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
> 65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
> 87 Golf "Winterat"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> On Behalf Of Adriel Rowley
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 11:48 PM
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>
> Anyone have any experience with BelMetric? Looks like they might actually
> have quality hardware; found them through a Porsche site. Sick of dealing
> with junk hardware and want smooth interaction.
>
> I was looking at them for the Mercedes' horn screws, and thinking if I do
> order, be good to get a few other bits to make shipping worth it. I know the
> M8 is common, but what other specifications? Course or fine? Length? Any
> other sizes?
>
>
> Thank you so very much!
> Adriel
>
> P.S. Came home to find the wire arrived. Made of polyethylene plastic, so
> has a soft matte finish and colors are WAY different than the same German
> color. Bothers my O.C.D., but then if I used the exact, the new custodian
> wouldn't know what was replaced. ;p
>
> -------------------------
>
> 1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
> 1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
> Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:59:41 +0000
From: "Daniel K. Du Vall" <dduvall at 1peter4-10.org>
To: "type3 at vwtype3.org" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
Message-ID:
<667a8b2ae79249a8a355d3ad6df87b02 at BY2PR05MB109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In case the link did not work for others here is another one that worked for me.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200495414_200495414
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Adriel Rowley
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:48 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
Keith:
MSD??
So no common hardware sizes? Glad I have a bin and a bottle of spare hardware!
Also, this was a good suggestion by another:?www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200495414_200495414 I had a magnetic bowl, but was too small. Being clumsy, keep knocking the paper bowl over.
Thank you so very much!
Adriel
-------------------------
1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
----------------------------------------
> From: topnotch at nycap.rr.com
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:11:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>
> MSD or McMaster carr, you can get whatever quality you want depending
> on how much you want to spend.
>
> Keith
>
>
> Topnotch Restorations
> topnotch at nycap.rr.om
> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
> 65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
> 87 Golf "Winterat"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org
> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> On Behalf Of Adriel Rowley
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 11:48 PM
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>
> Anyone have any experience with BelMetric? Looks like they might
> actually have quality hardware; found them through a Porsche site.
> Sick of dealing with junk hardware and want smooth interaction.
>
> I was looking at them for the Mercedes' horn screws, and thinking if I
> do order, be good to get a few other bits to make shipping worth it. I
> know the
> M8 is common, but what other specifications? Course or fine? Length?
> Any other sizes?
>
>
> Thank you so very much!
> Adriel
>
> P.S. Came home to find the wire arrived. Made of polyethylene plastic,
> so has a soft matte finish and colors are WAY different than the same
> German color. Bothers my O.C.D., but then if I used the exact, the new
> custodian wouldn't know what was replaced. ;p
>
> -------------------------
>
> 1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
> 1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
> Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
> subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
> subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:06:44 -0700
From: Adriel Rowley <adriel_rowley at hotmail.com>
To: "type3 at vwtype3.org" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
Message-ID: <COL131-W4931AD5846591204B436F99D950 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mr. Duvall:
Thank you so very much for the correction! Copy and pasted, but some reason Hotmail lately has been messing up links. Long day so missed the other bits...
Take care!
Adriel
-------------------------
1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
----------------------------------------
> From: dduvall at 1peter4-10.org
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:59:41 +0000
> Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>
> In case the link did not work for others here is another one that worked for me.
>
> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200495414_200495414
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Adriel Rowley
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:48 PM
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>
> Keith:
>
>
> MSD?
>
> So no common hardware sizes? Glad I have a bin and a bottle of spare hardware!
>
> Also, this was a good suggestion by another: www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200495414_200495414 I had a magnetic bowl, but was too small. Being clumsy, keep knocking the paper bowl over.
>
>
> Thank you so very much!
> Adriel
>
>
>
> -------------------------
>
> 1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
> 1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
> Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:11:46 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>>
>> MSD or McMaster carr, you can get whatever quality you want depending
>> on how much you want to spend.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.om
>> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
>> 65 Squareback "Eggcrate"
>> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
>> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>> 87 Golf "Winterat"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of Adriel Rowley
>> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 11:48 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: [T3] Common Hardware Sizes and BelMetric
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with BelMetric? Looks like they might
>> actually have quality hardware; found them through a Porsche site.
>> Sick of dealing with junk hardware and want smooth interaction.
>>
>> I was looking at them for the Mercedes' horn screws, and thinking if I
>> do order, be good to get a few other bits to make shipping worth it. I
>> know the
>> M8 is common, but what other specifications? Course or fine? Length?
>> Any other sizes?
>>
>>
>> Thank you so very much!
>> Adriel
>>
>> P.S. Came home to find the wire arrived. Made of polyethylene plastic,
>> so has a soft matte finish and colors are WAY different than the same
>> German color. Bothers my O.C.D., but then if I used the exact, the new
>> custodian wouldn't know what was replaced. ;p
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>> 1971 Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - In the Process of Being Dog Wgn 2
>> 1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD-T - Dog Wgn
>> Master's Student, A.S.U., living in north central Mesa, AZ
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
>> subscription options, visit:
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
>> subscription options, visit:
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 01:35:06 +0100
From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Starter Solenoid Testing
Message-ID: <58883D5EFFF54DAA92C08419103782AC at DavidPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If I've understood you right, I reckon that's just the solenoid moving but
unable to do anything else as there isn't enough power available from that
circuit to drive the starter motor round. Not a good idea to do it - you may
overload the ignition wire circuit and burn something out. That's certainly
the noise I heard when trying to start the school minibus with jump leads
after someone had left the inside lights on for several days - ie totally
flat battery, and probably pretty poor quality jump leads!
Dave
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of J. Jonik
Sent: 21 October 2014 22:21
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Starter Solenoid Testing
Bentley and Muir books aren't clear on what noises to expect when testing
starter and solenoid.
Crossing the battery nut with solenoid nut (key off) gets a nice whirrrr.
But...crossing battery with the small, plug-on Ignition Wire connection gets
what sounds like a hammer factory....loud, very fast, chaotic clackity
clack. Is that normal? If not, what's at fault?
And, what SHOULD it sound like?
PS--- This solenoid has no 4th connection...one labeled in Muir book as
"fuel injection". It's a 73 FI engine. Shouldn't that FI wire be
there...and where would be it's other end? It's all been fine for about ten
years, but....
_______________________________________________
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subscription options, visit:
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 01:46:55 +0100
From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Car won't start...
Message-ID: <E8A96FCC64BF4A3E9093C6182558DBC6 at DavidPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Look by the battery for a thick red/white striped wire. Follow it behind
the carpet towards the passenger seat. There should be a connector there.
That comes from the starter switch. Look for voltage on that (between the
connector and the chassis or battery negative) while turning the key to the
start position. If no voltage but idiot lights are on, it sounds like the
starter switch part. All the more reason to incorporate a starting relay
when you get things working. It's easy to do, and gets over quite a few
different faults and saves the starter switch too. They're not getting any
cheaper, or easier to find!
Then disconnect and touch rear part of that connector on battery +. Starter
motor should whirr as if trying to start (same as connecting battery contact
to solenoid at the starter motor). If it's not turning the engine over,
that sounds like the starter motor gear isn't engaging the starter ring
gear. Remove the starter motor and investigate. Damaged teeth? Gummed up
shaft?
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of J. Jonik
Sent: 21 October 2014 17:24
To: Type 3; type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Car won't start...
My non-working car's been flat-bedded home.? ''71 w/ ''73 engine, FI, stick.
Just this for now.?? How to eliminate Ignition Switch as the problem?
Symptoms:Key turn does it's thing with fuel relay. Nothing otherwise.
Crossing Solenoid with Starter (key off) produces whirring noise.Car
backfired, lightly, twice when it died.
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 01:55:27 +0100
From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Starter Solenoid Testing
Message-ID: <5271743B0F68453DA9687F7604567C19 at DavidPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Additional...
The small ignition connector should be making good contact with the solenoid
nut - aren't they on the same terminal? Maybe there's corrosion there? I
wouldn't expect much difference, except there might be some spark erosion on
the small connector, so it's not a good idea.
Dave
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of Dave Hall
Sent: 22 October 2014 01:35
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Starter Solenoid Testing
If I've understood you right, I reckon that's just the solenoid moving but
unable to do anything else as there isn't enough power available from that
circuit to drive the starter motor round. Not a good idea to do it - you may
overload the ignition wire circuit and burn something out. That's certainly
the noise I heard when trying to start the school minibus with jump leads
after someone had left the inside lights on for several days - ie totally
flat battery, and probably pretty poor quality jump leads!
Dave
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of J. Jonik
Sent: 21 October 2014 22:21
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Starter Solenoid Testing
Bentley and Muir books aren't clear on what noises to expect when testing
starter and solenoid.
Crossing the battery nut with solenoid nut (key off) gets a nice whirrrr.
But...crossing battery with the small, plug-on Ignition Wire connection gets
what sounds like a hammer factory....loud, very fast, chaotic clackity
clack. Is that normal? If not, what's at fault?
And, what SHOULD it sound like?
PS--- This solenoid has no 4th connection...one labeled in Muir book as
"fuel injection". It's a 73 FI engine. Shouldn't that FI wire be
there...and where would be it's other end? It's all been fine for about ten
years, but....
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