[T3] Temp sensor and MPS problems on new motor

[Keith Park]

Yea., im in Clifton Park 5mins of exit 8.  I had a bunch of dead messages
on the machine a while back, Ill bet you were driving thru that day.  Ive
had people come and visit me in T3's before, get lost, and pull over only
to have someone give them directions to where they wanted to go without them
even asking!  :-)

I used an Innovate AFR setting up the 2056, its the only way to go to get it

right with today's gas.  I had a totally unique setup with 037 based D jet
on a 2056 with a mild cam, I was able to get it run darn well but only to
the limitations of the early D jet and a higher torque engine with a light
flywheel.  Im going to try  and E based system next attempt, the transition
problems of the D based system were solved in the E based one.

I set up the NOtch with the AFR meter too, did the crate the old fashioned
way but it would have been faster to have hooked up the AFR.

KEith


Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback  "Hothe"
65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
93 RX7  "Redstur"
87 Golf  "Winterat"
 

-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of Jessica Chase
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 9:42 PM
To: type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Temp sensor and MPS problems on new motor

Thanks for all the input so far. You guys are beyond kind!!

Keith, we rented a place on Airbnb in Keene off exit 30. We passed through
Clifton Park on 87 and got off to get some food at the Colonie Center. Is
that your 'hood?

Here's where we are now:

In general, we use the AFR sensor to diagnose trends rather than moments or
instances. That's because of the lack of data about what's appropriate under
what circumstances, etc. If we pay too much attention to it, it drives us
crazy and gives us numbers that may or may not mean anything. The only hard
number we have is that AFR at warm idle should be 13.1 and that info comes
from factory trained D-jet meister George aka Tram. The other numbers we
think of are based on this list.

AFR Values & Characteristics in Four Stroke Engines

 6.0 AFR - Rich Burn Limit (engine fully warm)
 9.0 AFR - Black Smoke / Low Power
11.5 AFR - Best Rich Torque at Wide Open Throttle
12.2 AFR - Safe Best Power at Wide Open Throttle
13.3 AFR - Lean Best Torque
14.6 AFR - Stoichiometric AFR (Stoich)
15.5 AFR - Lean Cruise
16.5 AFR - Usual Best Economy
18.0 AFR - Carbureted Lean Burn Limit
22.0+ AFR - EEC / EFI Lean Burn Limit

So if we're accelerating and bucking/lurching with an AFR of 18.5 (as
happened today), we know we're definitely too lean because the numbers on
our gauge reflect more or less what should be happening at that AFR.

We were able to get to the magic 13.1 first with our adjustable but then
also ultimately (after a year or 2) erratic MPS. We also got that number
with the MPS we made our long drive out of town with though only on the
previous motor.

In other words, things have changed since the new motor! Apart from the
motor and the distributor, every single FI part we're using is exactly what
we used on the other motor and it all worked fine! Now, it doesn't. It seems
like maybe everything was quite close to okay on the way out of town the
other day but then the situation deteriorated. Suddenly, we were going up
small hills and the AFR was 16.5 which clearly isn't that good for a poor
air-cooled motor climbing a moderate hill!

FWIW, the new motor is using a stock cam, compression ratio, rockers, etc.
It's all stock!

The AFR sensor we're using is this one

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16321
<http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16321>

It has a Bosch 02 sensor but I can't find the part number right now. 

While we were able to remove the epoxy from the sensor that got us out of
town and make it adjustable, we couldn't get the motor to start with it
hooked up. We counted the turns it took to remove the screw and put it back
in accordingly but no dice. We haven't checked the resistance but maybe the
sensor has failed for some reason?

What got us home in the end was a NOS pressure sensor we bought from Jim a
year or so ago. In order to use it though, we had to unplug the intake air
temp sensor. With it plugged in, we were idling really lean (15.5) and while
driving it'd spike even leaner (18-20) and we were underpowered and bucking
while trying to accelerate. Not fun. Unplugging the temp sensor was the only
thing that made the car drivable. The exhaust stank like hell and we had to
refill the tank twice when once would have done but we got home. We only got
about 17 mpg  :(

Jim.your recollection about our brains is correct. After we "fried" one
during a bad electrical test, we've been running one that has worked fine
(apart from not grounding the fuel pump) since 11/25/15. This one is still
in the car. We also have another B brain that doesn't ground the pump as
well as an A brain which we've never tried to use.  
We can try our current setup with those 2 brains tomorrow and see if we have
any luck with sane AFRs.  Also, just before we left town, we finally
acquired USPS priority boxes so we can ship you the collection of ECUs we
have.we'll do our best to ship them tomorrow or Monday.
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