[T3] Temp sensor and MPS problems on new motor

[Dave Hall]

Could be salt corrosion eating away, but it's very common for Type 3 starter
motors to refuse to turn when they have cooled down after a hot drive.  I've
had it happen on all my Type 3s over 40 years, without actually finding out
why it happens (or doesn't). It does seem to bear some connection with
heat-soak (even in the UK!), and hitting the starter motor (a single sharp
tap) with a hammer or screwdriver handle often does the trick.  Also
mometarily shorting the starter solenoid and starter main feed with a coin
to make it turn a bit often shakes it out of its 'sulk'. We were shown that
trick by Russ on the first Invasion caravan at Lander, WY, but it's nt very
convenient or easy to reach under to do it.  That suggests the brushes might
not be making good contact with an armature that's cooled and contracted a
fraction.

What I used to find was that operating the starter motor again briefly after
turning off the engine very often ensured it would start again without a
problem later.

Opening up the starter motor and making sure the brushes are not too worn
and everything is clean and the sliding gear is lightly lubricated may fix
it for a time, but the only thing that has seemed to work for me is fitting
a 'hard start' relay. That can be done easily - there's even a connector in
the red starter solenoid wire under the carpet on the right of the tunnel
that means you can do it without even cutting wires.  I mount the relay so
the (red/white) wire from the ignition/starter switch operates the relay
primary circuit (earth wire needed to the frame) and a similar thickness
wire from the battery + to the relay secondary input, with the solenoid wire
(red) connected to the relay output. 

I've not had the problem recur for maybe the past 15 years since adding the
relay.  It also takes the solenoid load off the ignition/starter switch,
which in the long term is probably even more important, as parts
availability gets less good.

One other problem I've found was in my first Type 3, a 6 Volt Squareback
where the solenoid and motor braided connector had crumbled away. Until I
found that problem, I used to have a battery feed in a connector block and a
wire from the solenoid to touch on it - not very handy to have to reach
behind the seat and touch them together if I stalled in traffic!

Hope it helps.

Dave
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================


-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of Jessica Chase
Sent: 27 February 2016 00:33
To: type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
Subject: [T3] Temp sensor and MPS problems on new motor

We haven't had a chance to make much progress on our FI system issues, but
we have a new brain on the way. Also, Daniel has been taking resistance
measurements of our TS2 (head temp sensor) after the motor has warmed up,
usually at either end of his commute. In a week where temps have ranged from
the low 30's all the way up to 60, the resistance readings have ranged from
90 ohms to 79 ohms. These are pretty low readings from what we gather, so
our next move will be to ballast the sensor.

In other news, we developed two other issues un-related to the FI: as the
week has gone on, the car has gotten harder and harder to start.  On the
first try, it'll crank and crank but won't catch. On the second try it will
catch right away and then quickly stall. Sometimes there are up to 6 tries
alternating between cranking a lot and not starting or starting and stalling
until it finally catches. This is with the fuel pump not grounded and we're
able to let pressure build up in the fuel ring for a few seconds before even
turning the key the first time. Last week, there was no issue at all with
starting..it fired up on the first try every time!!

After work today, Daniel went through 4 tries at starting but on the 5th try
nothing happened. The idiot lights came on but the starter didn't spin
around. He had to push start it to get home. After the car got home, it
fired up no problem after being parked. We had a problem with idiot lights
but no starter over the summer on a really hot July day after a long highway
drive. Today, the car had been off for 6 hours and it was 33 degrees out!
It's a little confusing. What do you all think?

Then, we were driving together and heard a strange moaning sound from the
area of the motor. I thought it might be because my bike was in the back and
was picking up some vibrations from the motor but no dice. Even with the
bike out there was a moan. I turned off the headlights after parking and the
moan went away. When I put the lights back on, the moan came back. It seemed
to very clearly be coming from the generator. Are we crazy, or is this a
thing that happens?
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