[T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging

William J catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Tue Dec 12 12:56:35 PST 2017

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging

> On 11 Dec 2017 at 12:55, William J wrote:
>>  Also on Samba I'm being told that the injector seals of the kind that
>> are sold by most on-line and FLAPS only last 2 years before drying out
>> and cracking providing a leak . Mainly by one fellow who says you
>> should use green CIS viton O'ring type . Last ones I got from bus depot
>> and they looked just like the one VW sold like they were molded black
>> rubber , by molded they have a small ridge around the center.
>>  I replaced mine in 2009 and just looked and see no cracks . He claims
>> it's the fit around the injector tip that is the issue . What I see
>> once compressed they seal around the tip/ yellow plastic cover and the
>> base of the injector . I cannot rotate mine or move any injector one
>> bit. . He also said  seals that sit unused are shot
> Probably about half of mine are still originals. I see no problem 
> continuing to
> use them. I hate the idea of replacing that square cross section seal with 
> a
> round o-ring. I'm concerned that we'd then be asking it to seal against 
> the
> unmachined cast surface out at the edge of the machined recess.
> It's certainly possible that there are unreliable aftermarket parts. 
> That's just
> another reason to keep using the OE stuff as long as it's good. I NEVER
> replace old parts with new just so they'll be new. There needs to be a 
> good
> reason.
> BTW, Viton is great stuff: good chemical resistance and good high temp
> performance, but unusable at low temps, say below freezing. (Remember the
> Challenger Space Shuttle!) Not really a good choice in general, but it's
> important to understand that there are actually dozens of formulations of
> Viton, as well as hundreds or thousands of other kinds of elastomers.
>>  I was also told you can't use or find thin enough gasket paper to
>> replace the gasket on both sides of each runner to intake plastic
>> spacer.
> The original paper wasn't anything special. It was very thin and it does 
> not
> appear to be any kind of gasket material. I use regular typing/copy paper; 
> it
> works just as well as the OE stuff did.
>>  I also wanted to ask if you have 4 of the runner to IAD hoses and
>> maybe the injector  tip seals ? and if so what would they cost. I can
>> find then on-line yet the shipping is a killer.
> I don't think I've ever had to replace the air runner sleeves, but 
> sometimes, if
> you're rebuilding an engine that's been put together carelessly, or you've 
> just
> realigned the runners, you have to snug the sleeves up with cable ties for 
> a
> few years to give them a chance to assume the new shape.

 The main reason for me wanting runner sleeves is because I listened to 
someone years ago and placed hose clamps at both ends .  They were aligned 
proper yet I was told they can leak and this was their fix. Now that I've 
done this they may not seal proper ever again.

 Since I have to unplug the air temp sensor to get it to idle without the 
miss it seems as if I may have a vacuum leak somewhere other than the AAR 
not always closing plus since the oil cooler seals are old and may be 
leaking I wanted to  change these as well . To do this I need to remove the 
left side runner.

 I don't think the injector seals are leaking They look fine and I cannot 
move the injectors or turn them . I'm not sure if the runner to intake 
gaskets are drawing in air . When I replaced them in 97 when I rebuilt the 
72 engine to use I used a type of Ford brown sealer that dries . I was thin 
brush one sealer and I also used this on the runner sleeves . I used this on 
the 73 intakes as well and the area on the heads was clean so the sealer 
didn't adhear . It's not like permatex or contact cemtent . At Ford we used 
it on intakes and water pumps and the lable is long gone.

 My point of all this is it seems only a vacuum leak since everything else 
is working as it should may be the reason unplugging the air temp sensor 
clears this up for what ever reason and I don't know what I can spray on 
runner sleeves or any other way to know if a vacuum leak is the cause . I 
can't do this on the intakes and run the engine for obvious reasons . I've 
heard of smoke machines don't have one and never used one . Many times it's 
vacuum lines that cause vacuum leaks these are easy to change. I know you 
said I should see if the runner to head intake nuts are tight . I feel if I 
do have and find any leaks and repair them then just maybe this car will run 
fine with the air temp sensor plugged in . We also talked about a vacuum 
leak that may come and go and the front cover on the IAD

 I'm told if I have an  injector seal leak or intake and it runs well with 
the air temp unplugged this is a sign of a leak and if it's at one or 2 
cylinders then they run lean because of the added air and this unplugged 
sensor richens them and at the same time causes the ones not leaking to run 
richer . Also if I continue to allow any cylinder to run leak it may run hot 
and perhaps burn a valve. When I changed the spark plugs in 2009 they all 
looked the same and they only have a little over 2 k miles on then now. They 
all looked sooty not white or oily.

 I can't say this makes a lot of sense because it the others run richer I 
would still have a idle issue. The only way this would be true is if one or 
two are just slightly lean. When one uses a sniffer all it reads is RPM and 
what ever is in the exhaust , it does not tell which cylinder is rich or if 
all are from what I recall.
> For the injector tip seals, if you can squeeze one and it can collapse 
> without
> cracking, it's still good. I reuse them many times.
> For the outer "seals", they last forever, unless you get a gas leak that 
> soaks
> them. Then they expand and break the phenolic alignment blocks. The
> alignment blocks are the only part I've had to replace very often. The 
> swollen
> outer seals will recover if you let them sit for a few months. The gas
> evaporates.

 I have a spare set of those and I have the metal tubes on the car so you 
cannot break them when tightened. Haven't leaked fuel on them .
> -- 
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
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