[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 114, Issue 4
Mark Poulton
mjrpoulton at aol.com
Thu Mar 12 13:45:17 PDT 2020
"I just double-checked the parts list to make sure that there were no late '68s
made with the rear mounts. The only '68s made with the rear mounts were
the AT cars (M249), which were IRS, not swing axle."
Jim I can confirm that I have a 9/67 built RHD T344 manual swing axle car (owned since 8/85), which has all the factory IRS rear body pressings each side for the body mount to hanger bar. The original engine does not have the castings for the hanger bar bolts though. So as far as T34 was concerned these were in each shell for both manual and auto cars from 68 model year production.
I also have a 3/68 auto car model 345 that was delivered new in Germany with the full IRS and solex carbs fitted with altitude correctors and the unique 905P distributor. The pan for each car incidentally has the specific fittings for the chosen gearbox only.
Mark
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: hanger bar on 68 notchback (Jim Adney)
2. Re: hanger bar on 68 notchback (Jeff C)
3. Re: hanger bar on 68 notchback (William Jahn)
4. Re: hanger bar on 68 notchback (Jim Adney)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 09:17:12 -0500
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] hanger bar on 68 notchback
Message-ID: <5E6A4468.13972.8230200 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I just double-checked the parts list to make sure that there were no late '68s
made with the rear mounts. The only '68s made with the rear mounts were
the AT cars (M249), which were IRS, not swing axle.
Is it possible that someone welded IRS rear support brackets into each side
of the body? I think that's the only way you could end up with a Type 3 that
had rear mounts with a swing axle tranny.
I also see that your photo of the engine compartment does not show the little
tab that would have stuck forward from the rear edge of the engine opening
to hold the support for the "handle" that constituted an extra support for the
rear of the engine on swing axle cars.
Is it possible that you misunderstand what a swing axle looks like? A swing
axle car has axles in axle tubes that run out to each rear wheel. Those tubes
are 2" or so in diameter and don't rotate. An IRS tranny has exposed axles
which are less than 1" in diameter and rotate with the wheels.
What's your VIN? Note that model year '69s were made starting in August of
1968. My guess is that what you have is an IRS model year '69.
Jim
On 11 Mar 2020 at 9:46, J L Stamey wrote:
> She's def a 68,. Birth Cert photo, all VIN #'s match too:
>
> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2009951.jpg
>
> automatic would be on options list so I don't think it was an auto.
> Kiel Germany was destination built on 11/21/67.
>
> odd ball late 67??
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 4:13 PM
> <type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968
> > swingaxle notchback (David)
> > 2. Re: Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968
> > swingaxle notchback (Dave Hall)
> > 3. Re: Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968
> > swingaxle notchback (Dave Hall)
> > 4. Re: Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968
> > swingaxle notchback (Jim Adney)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 22:40:04 -0400
> > From: "David" <rdavid at rochester.rr.com>
> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> > Subject: [T3] Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968
> > swingaxle notchback
> > Message-ID: <000401d5f685$34b9c210$9e2d4630$@rochester.rr.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I never heard of a IRS hanger breaking before!
> >
> > Unless for some reason it is rusted out, but that one certainly looks like a
> > clean metal break to me.
> >
> > Dave Pallo
> >
> > '72 Square ~ Elwood
> >
> > Fairport, New York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 08:05:17 +0000
> > From: Dave Hall <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> > Subject: Re: [T3] Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for
> > 1968 swingaxle notchback
> > Message-ID: <E1jBZt6-00026T-9Z at relay02.mail.eu.clara.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > The
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "David" <rdavid at rochester.rr.com>
> > Sent: ?10/?03/?2020 02:40
> > To: "type3 at vwtype3.org" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> > Subject: [T3] Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968 swingaxle notchback
> >
> > I never heard of a IRS hanger breaking before!
> >
> > Unless for some reason it is rusted out, but that one certainly looks like a
> > clean metal break to me.
> >
> > Dave Pallo
> >
> > '72 Square ~ Elwood
> >
> > Fairport, New York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:39:41 -0000
> > From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> > Subject: Re: [T3] Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for
> > 1968 swingaxle notchback
> > Message-ID: <000201d5f6d8$f8979470$e9c6bd50$@hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I have known them break, but it was under extreme conditions when a motor
> > industry research organisation in the UK tested a 1969 Auto Fastback. The
> > pav? test proved too much for the hanger and it cracked across the centre
> > after a few hundred miles of tooth-shattering driving. I think I gave CDs
> > of the test report to Jim and John. It's a very comprehensive report
> > involving a complete strip-down of the car, weights for all the components
> > etc, chassis stiffness tests, performance figures etc.
> >
> > Dave,
> > UK VW Type 3&4 Club.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: type3-vwtype3.org <type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org> On
> > Behalf Of David
> > Sent: 10 March 2020 02:40
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: [T3] Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for 1968
> > swingaxle notchback
> >
> > I never heard of a IRS hanger breaking before!
> >
> > Unless for some reason it is rusted out, but that one certainly looks like a
> > clean metal break to me.
> >
> > Dave Pallo
> >
> > '72 Square ~ Elwood
> >
> > Fairport, New York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
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> > e1074c5/attachment.html>
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
> > subscription options, visit:
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 08:40:49 -0500
> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: Re: [T3] Need "hanger plate/bar bracket" L and R side for
> > 1968 swingaxle notchback
> > Message-ID: <5E6798E1.28759.6F841B8D at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > First off, your subject line says "1968 swingaxle", so I wonder how that's
> > possible, since a swingaxle car would not have this crossbar. You clearly
> > have the rear mount crossbar, which was only used on IRS Type 3s, so this
> > can't be a swing axle car and probably isn't a '68, since the only IRS '68s
> > were the very first AT Type 3s, sold only in Europe. So I'm guessing that this
> > is a '69, which is almost identical to a '68, except for being IRS.
> >
> > Check your VIN. The 3rd digit of your VIN is the last digit of the model year.
> >
> > Okay, that said, I've never seen one of these break either, but this one
> > clearly did. There were 2 versions of the rear mount crossbar. The early one
> > has a large (~1") hole, which I think I can see just to the right of the break.
> > The later one eliminated that hole. The hole was there to allow access to a
> > screw head that attached the tin to a tab on the heat exchanger. I believe
> > both versions were equally strong, but you should try to find one with the
> > hole if you need it for that screw access. (VW changed the tin to eliminate
> > the need for the hole in later years.)
> >
> > The rear mount crossbar is bolted to the case with two 10 mm bolts and one
> > 8 mm bolt. To replace the crossbar, you'll have to remove the fan and the fan
> > housing, which can be done with the engine in the car, but it's not
> > straightforward. In the meantime, I agree that it's reasonable to find a shop
> > that can weld the bar back together temporarily. You should check to make
> > sure that the hangers that support the ends of the crossbar are not putting
> > excess stress on the crossbar. Their positions are adjustable.
> >
> > On 9 Mar 2020 at 11:50, J L Stamey wrote:
> >
> > > Got the car tuned up and ready to roll yesterday. On way back from gas
> > > station I heard a pop and a grinding or dragging sound. Pulled over and
> > > noticed right side of engine was WAY low. Looked up underneath and
> > > immediately noticed the hanger bar or bracket had snapped in 2! I figured
> > > while I am in there, may as well replace both sides!
> > >
> > > Looked around on ISP and a few other sources, all I see is IRS brackets.
> > >
> > > pic of the motor drooping on the right:
> > > https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2009130.jpg
> > >
> > > pic of the bracket piece I need (attaches to underside of engine area with
> > > 2 large, maybe 17mm or 19mm, bolts)
> > > https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2009131.jpg
> > >
> > > Anyone know how to get these and any tips or tricks to installing them?
> > >
> > > Many thanks!
> >
> > --
> > *******************************
> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > *******************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 114, Issue 2
> > *************************************************
> _______________________________________________
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--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:40:48 -0700
From: Jeff C <knowonelse at gmail.com>
To: T3 <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] hanger bar on 68 notchback
Message-ID:
<CANbgFtVOwgCgpkodpxrSK7yHDtxuicvrNLVKU5eudzdJpfjTEA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I took a picture of my '67 swing axle from about the same position as the
> picture posted earlier.
Note that just behind the rubber bumper is a large diameter tube which
houses the axle inside.
I noticed that on the original picture at the lower right a CV boot can be
seen, which is only found on IRS axles.
There is no equivalent boot on the swing axle.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2010333.jpg
Original picture
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2009131.jpg
Jeff '67 Sqbk
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:46:40 -0700
From: William Jahn <willjahn975 at gmail.com>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] hanger bar on 68 notchback
Message-ID:
<CADD65r754_k0L1mP9aQ9802TLhQKsvrkkYtTy87BptsCF1gF5w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
wouldn't there be at least be signs on the original swing axle rear engine
mount that was welded to the rear of the engine opening if it was changed
to an IRS?
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Jeff C <knowonelse at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I took a picture of my '67 swing axle from about the same position as the
> > picture posted earlier.
>
> Note that just behind the rubber bumper is a large diameter tube which
> houses the axle inside.
> I noticed that on the original picture at the lower right a CV boot can be
> seen, which is only found on IRS axles.
> There is no equivalent boot on the swing axle.
>
> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2010333.jpg
>
> Original picture
> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2009131.jpg
>
> Jeff '67 Sqbk
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> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:53:05 -0500
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] hanger bar on 68 notchback
Message-ID: <5E6A68F1.19194.8B1BB5A at jadney.vwtype3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Jeff, perfect call. I failed to notice that detail in his photo.
So what he has is an IRS car, presumably a '68 that was originally sold in
europe with the odd '68 AT with dual Solex carbs (which was IRS, while all
other '68s were swing axle.) Or this is a '69. An AT pan would have a place
where the shift cable exited on the underside, somewhat to the rear and left
of the hand brake lever. If this is now MT, that leaves an unused "port" on
the underside of the pan. That this car came from europe makes the '68 AT
option possible.
Mystery solved, but he still needs a rear mount crossbar.
Jim
On 12 Mar 2020 at 8:40, Jeff C wrote:
> I noticed that on the original picture at the lower right a CV boot can
> be seen, which is only found on IRS axles. There is no equivalent boot
> on the swing axle.
>
> Original picture
> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2009131.jpg
--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
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