[T3] Old Type IIIs

Wed Feb 23 12:55:14 PST 2011

\Well, I can tell you FI or carbs you will never exceed 30mpg on the highway
at sea level without burning it up, maybe 35 at 8000 feet but then you will
have far less power.  If you have more power than an FI engine then your
engine is not stock, that simple.  Physics don’t lie, to get more power and
better HP you have to open up the intake and exaust to get more air to flow,
slapping on carbs changes nothing... therefore you wont get any additional
power or fuel economy.

Apples to apples, stock engines, there is very little if any difference from
carbs to FI power wise or with MPG, there is no free ride to power and any
competent builder will tell you that, and since carbs have no way to change
the mixture curve for cold starts without a choke... they cant start
properly when its cold and handle the warmup curve like FI does with its
thermistors, this is why chokeless carbs are often set up too rich,

After all, why did VW put chokes in their carbs if they didn’t need them?

I spent a lot of time conversing with a D jet FI expert last year, and while
he knew a lot, he didn’t know that our late version of the D jet even
existed... so be cautious around the experts, some are great, some have a
degree of hot air involved.

Ill bet you have a built engine and don’t know it, and the FI wasn’t tuned
for it so it couldn’t produce, but you will go down with gas mileage as you
go up with HP, were not talking closed loop lean burn modern engines here,
again, there is no free ride, and I sure did my research when I went to a
built motor.

Keith

Okay, okay.... but before you burn me at the stake, my final words:

I have known so many people with FI type III's; from pristine low
mileage/never 
tampered with cars to total beaters that had been hacked apart by idiot 
mechanics; I have driven them after having the FI system completely redone
by a 
man who I consider to be one of the foremost authorities on aircooled vw's
(type 
III and otherwise) in the U.S., who has been servicing the FI on  those cars

since they were new at the dealership.... and there is no comparison with my

carb setup. Maybe I just got lucky? It's a stock motor, Weber 34ICT carbs
with 
no chokes; always started immediately in sub zero weather and was warmed up
and 
drivable in 30 seconds. In the seven years I've owned the car, and for at
least 
10 years before that, the carbs have never needed to be synced, or touched
in 
any other way other than to rejet them when I moved to sea level from
Colorado. 
Even with them jetted very large now, I can get over 40mpg on the highway (I

could get 50 in Colorado). I could do 80mph up a 7% grade, where I GUARANTEE
you 
a FI car couldn't make it to 60. The only thing, in 7 years of daily
driving, 
that has ever kept this car from running was the silicone pieces stuck in
the 
fuel line (see my previous emails). The best FI car I've ever encountered
was 
roughly equivalent to mine running on 3 cylinders. 

Is it just that every FI I've encountered was not set up right, etc.? Maybe,
but 
if it's really THAT hard to find one usable, or to GET them usable, then
that 
just reinforces my reasons for not wanting anything to do with it.

There, now you may light the fire.

________________________________
From: Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 11:43:55 AM
Subject: Re: [T3] Old Type IIIs

Here comes the Angry mob! ;-)

320K on mine and maybe a couple minor FI issues over the years,  Why?  There
is simply very little to go wrong..  If someone has butchered up your
harness or installed the wrong parts then yea, your going to have problems
but if its properly assembled and treated correctly its bulletproof.

Carburators are a giant leap back in technology, and there are so many
little things that can go wrong with them.

Besides... you'll never be able to get your car to start on the first
compression stroke at any outside temperature with Carbs but with a good FI
system... perfect starts every time without touching the accelerator!

Back in the 70's when carbs were still prevalent there wasn't a month that
Dad didn't have the hood up on one of the cars to mess with the carburetor,
and it needed adjustment changes from winter to summer.... none of this with
FI.

Keith

    I will be ridiculed, as always, for saying this, but I still  
stand by it; my type III has been a daily driver for 7 years; if it's  
not running, my family is minus a car. It is used to ferry the kids  
around, has had to go on long trips, etc. Since I have owned it, I  
have known a FEW other people that used them as REAL daily drivers,  
with one friend basically using his as a work truck on unpaved  
mountain backroads, logging 1,000 miles a week or more. Everybody  
I've known that REALLY depended on a type III for serious dependable  
transportation would tell you what I'm about to tell you, and it's  
very simple: Throw the fuel injection system in the trash and put  
carburetors on it.

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