[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 39, Issue 20
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johnnyvw at earthlink.net
Tue Dec 31 14:12:40 PST 2013
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Subject: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 39, Issue 20
Date: Fri, Dec 20, 2013 10:50 am
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Passenger Side Rear View Mirror (Gary Forsmo)
2. Re: Passenger Side Rear View Mirror (Mike Fisher)
3. Re: Passenger Side Rear View Mirror (J. Jonik)
4. Re: Attaching rear seat belts (Dave Hall)
5. Re: Passenger Side Rear View Mirror (Dave Hall)
6. Re: Attaching rear seat belts (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
7. Re: Attaching rear seat belts (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
8. Tie rods (Dennis Stiefel)
9. Re: Passenger Side Rear View Mirror (Jim Adney)
10. Re: Attaching rear seat belts (Jim Adney)
11. Re: Tie rods (Jim Adney)
12. Re: Tie rods (Dennis Stiefel)
13. Re: Tie rods (Robert Klein)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:41:24 -0600
From: Gary Forsmo <gbforsmo at gmail.com>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Passenger Side Rear View Mirror
Message-ID:
<CAN8eaV_qWTrXiN5bGv8RX85SLubfx_00yncMMiWL2vqa0EdLfg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Dave Hall wrote:
>I think VW supplied all their Squarebacks with two mirrors for just that
>reason.
I can attest that my one-owner, original 1969 Square came with both a LHS &
RHS Door Mirror.
Because I wasn't a "appreciator" (is that a word?) of all things Type 3,
until I met Jim Adney, by phone, in June of 2010, my car had been in dry
storage, up on jack stands, Stabil in the fuel tank for 10+ years.
The barn-owner where the Square was stored, with my 1930 Model "A", Ford,
45-B, Coupe with Rumble Seat, had to have some barn foundation work done,
the cars needed to be sold and/or moved.
Much as I wanted to keep the Model "A", (it was almost completely in pieces
and I was not able to "wrench it back together") ... it sold quickly.
The Square was another story. Because it was my first new car, I was
emotionally attached to it.
With Jim's (telephone) advice, we got it "fired up", drove it 65 miles to
Madison with almost no brakes and got it nearer to Jim's house, for
additional repairs. Since Jim has helped repair many of the "systems", and
underscored the importance of the value
(not $$$ value) of the '69 Square, with FI & MT, in the Type 3 arena of
"friends".
I owe a debt of gratitude to Bob Heydt, too.
But back to the mirrors.
Sometime in the '70's, the silvering on my original mirror glass,
de-laminated.
As a Christmas gift, our children bought two replacements. They were not
VW parts. But they worked.
Dummy me .... I disposed of the originals. That was BVWA (before
Volkswagen appreciation).
I have managed to buy a correct, (mostly good chrome, s.s., mounting nut,
etc.) LHS, short-arm door mirror.
But in 3+ years, I have not found a suitable and correct,
good-to-excellent, RHS, long-arm mirror. Still huntin'.
Gary "Frito" - '69 Variant, FI, MT
Rockport, TX (winter)
Lake Geneva, WI (summer)
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 14:47:38 -0800
From: Mike Fisher <fisherfarms at gmail.com>
To: T3 List <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Passenger Side Rear View Mirror
Message-ID:
<CAMFgKfckjzGdTRcNoivBGnA=mnokMEih8OPxAd6bAZp6piaXvQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The long arm is a separate piece from the passenger mirror on my '69.
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Gary Forsmo <gbforsmo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Dave Hall wrote:
> >I think VW supplied all their Squarebacks with two mirrors for just that
> >reason.
>
> I can attest that my one-owner, original 1969 Square came with both a LHS &
> RHS Door Mirror.
>
> Because I wasn't a "appreciator" (is that a word?) of all things Type 3,
> until I met Jim Adney, by phone, in June of 2010, my car had been in dry
> storage, up on jack stands, Stabil in the fuel tank for 10+ years.
>
> The barn-owner where the Square was stored, with my 1930 Model "A", Ford,
> 45-B, Coupe with Rumble Seat, had to have some barn foundation work done,
> the cars needed to be sold and/or moved.
> Much as I wanted to keep the Model "A", (it was almost completely in pieces
> and I was not able to "wrench it back together") ... it sold quickly.
>
> The Square was another story. Because it was my first new car, I was
> emotionally attached to it.
>
> With Jim's (telephone) advice, we got it "fired up", drove it 65 miles to
> Madison with almost no brakes and got it nearer to Jim's house, for
> additional repairs. Since Jim has helped repair many of the "systems", and
> underscored the importance of the value
> (not $$$ value) of the '69 Square, with FI & MT, in the Type 3 arena of
> "friends".
> I owe a debt of gratitude to Bob Heydt, too.
>
> But back to the mirrors.
> Sometime in the '70's, the silvering on my original mirror glass,
> de-laminated.
> As a Christmas gift, our children bought two replacements. They were not
> VW parts. But they worked.
> Dummy me .... I disposed of the originals. That was BVWA (before
> Volkswagen appreciation).
>
> I have managed to buy a correct, (mostly good chrome, s.s., mounting nut,
> etc.) LHS, short-arm door mirror.
> But in 3+ years, I have not found a suitable and correct,
> good-to-excellent, RHS, long-arm mirror. Still huntin'.
>
>
> Gary "Frito" - '69 Variant, FI, MT
> Rockport, TX (winter)
> Lake Geneva, WI (summer)
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> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
>
--
Eugene, Oregon
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 15:14:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "J. Jonik" <j_jonik at yahoo.com>
To: Type 3 <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Passenger Side Rear View Mirror
Message-ID:
<1387494874.94973.YahooMailNeo at web126005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dave Hall wrote:
As far as insurance is concerned, just because a car has two door mirrors,
doesn't mean they are used - or even the interior one!
>>>> Ha. Wrong. They ARE used.
How do you think lipstick or eye-liner is applied at red lights?
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:44:30 -0000
From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Attaching rear seat belts
Message-ID: <88CE7238E1EF44ABAD8DC1AE1A7315DB at DavidPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sorry, that's not true Jim. Where rear seat-belt mountings are fitted, they
are quite separate from the OE body-to-pan bolts. The mountings are
significantly larger bolts than the pan uses - 7/16"-20 UNF bolts, (just
checked), rather than M8 like the body-bolts. ISTR (but not always
correctly!) some of the fitting kits I've found have bolt heads around 18mm
across on those ('proper 7/16" bolts?), but others have 17mm metric heads -
confusing until I realised! However the thread is an international
standard. I'm not sure how they could change it now without making it clear
that the thread is different. Obviously the head size can be changed, as
seems to have happened over here.
The holes are plugged with plastic screws with a cross-slot (white for the
top mountings and black for the lower ones), and a rubber sealing washer,
but they will probably be hard to get out intact as they tend to get rusted
in over the years.
Dave
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
[mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Jim Adney
Sent: 19 December 2013 13:22
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Attaching rear seat belts
On 19 Dec 2013 at 7:03, Dan Zink wrote:
> Where's the stock attaching points for the rear seat belts ?
They go under some of the OE body-to-pan bolts. The correct ones to use are
the 2 in the center of the car and the 2 that are outboard.
The center ones will be obvious. The outboard ones pass thru reinforcing
plates that, IIRC, you can see from inside the rear wheel well. If you take
the correct outboard ones out, you can verify from below that you've gotten
the correct ones.
--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
_______________________________________________
VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:54:07 -0000
From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Passenger Side Rear View Mirror
Message-ID: <5256BD55D5A74D62B5F7E2A7DC673A4A at DavidPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Oh yes - forgot that. Many modern cars have vanity mirrors both sides. If
I got an LHD passenger sun-visor for the Squareback, I could do it at the
traffic lights easily.
Hmm, hang-on, I don't wear lipstick, and don't even like that lipsalve
stuff. Problem solved! ;-)
Dave
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
===================
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org
[mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of J. Jonik
Sent: 19 December 2013 23:15
To: Type 3
Subject: Re: [T3] Passenger Side Rear View Mirror
Dave Hall wrote:
As far as insurance is concerned, just because a car has two door mirrors,
doesn't mean they are used - or even the interior one!
>>>> Ha. Wrong. They ARE used.
How do you think lipstick or eye-liner is applied at red lights?
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_______________________________________________
VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:59:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Attaching rear seat belts
Message-ID: <739d0.58095d.3fe4fe78 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 12/19/2013 6:58:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk writes:
The mountings are
significantly larger bolts than the pan uses - 7/16"-20 UNF bolts, (just
checked), rather than M8 like the body-bolts. ISTR (but not always
correctly!) some of the fitting kits I've found have bolt heads around 18mm
across on those ('proper 7/16" bolts?), but others have 17mm metric heads -
confusing until I realised! However the thread is an international
standard. I'm not sure how they could change it now without making it
clear
that the thread is different.
Here in the states, we use an 11/16ths instead of a 17mm wrench/socket for
early seat belt bolts. It's kind of a standard from those days. Now, on
newer stuff they're 14mm coarse thread, and have a dab of blue loctite on the
threads. :O
Yes, most of the aftermarket seal belt "kits" sold, do have 7/16-20 thread
on them. They also include a couple of thick (1/8th inch) washers for
adding seat belts into an early car (like a 65).
Like Dave and Jim mentioned, the center rear seat mount holes are 7/16-20
thread. : )
Bob 65 Notch S w/Sunroof and IRS aka Krusty
64 T-34 Ghia aka Wolfie
71 Square-vert under construction
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:02:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Attaching rear seat belts
Message-ID: <73b02.315ac121.3fe4ff1c at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 12/19/2013 8:59:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Bobsnotch at aol.com writes:
Here in the states, we use an 11/16ths instead of a 17mm wrench/socket
for
early seat belt bolts. It's kind of a standard from those days.
Correction, actually the socket/wrench is 13/16ths, not 11/16ths like used
on some VWs.
Bob 65 Notch S w/Sunroof and IRS aka Krusty
64 T-34 Ghia aka Wolfie
71 Square-vert under construction
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 22:42:08 -0600
From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: [T3] Tie rods
Message-ID: <006601cefd3d$d7e7ad00$87b70700$@dekalbk12.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well finally got the last quarter panel done so have been back on the road.
This morning on the way to work the speedo went crazy then 0. I figured it
was something wrong with the cable because Jim just went through the head.
Got to school and after looking at some stuff come to find out the square
hole in the driver?s side dust cap was starting to get round. This is not
an issue as I have a spare front end off the parts car we scraped last year.
As we were going to swap them out I grabbed the caliber and felt a clunk.
Got to checking and all the tie rod ends had play in them. This was a
little odd as they were all fine when we had the car apart but I guess the
grease was dry in there from setting up for 24 years and so I guess they
wore quickly. The ones off the parts car has about 90K less miles on them
but have been setting up for 33 years and the boots are dry rotted. Went to
my FLAPS and got the doorman/help brand of universal tie rod end boots in a
?? on the shaft diameter. We packed new grease and installed the new boots
on them then in the car. The boots fit better than you think they would but
not as good as original. It beats a rotted one. Don?t how long this will
last. If they go out soon then I guess I will have to break down and buy
some new tie rod ends. I will be doing a new video or videos soon in
celebration of her returning back to the road hopefully a little more
entertaining than usual. One of the things I plan to show is the issue I
have been having with my right mirror I got off the parts car as the
fastback didn?t have one to start with. So I guess I will throw my hat in
that thread here lately. Got to still do some little cosmetic things and a
TPS or TVS (I?m use to the modern car Arcanum). Got to check with Jim or
someone who has one to see how that is going to set me back. Running
unplugged for now
Dennis Stiefel
72 Fastback FI MT
Rainsville, AL
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:55:17 -0600
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Passenger Side Rear View Mirror
Message-ID: <52B3E9D5.5813.3DCD480 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 19 Dec 2013 at 23:54, Dave Hall wrote:
> Oh yes - forgot that. Many modern cars have vanity mirrors both sides. If
> I got an LHD passenger sun-visor for the Squareback, I could do it at the
> traffic lights easily.
Starting in '71, our RHS passenger side sunvisors got mirrors. Did
your LHS passenger sunvisors get mirrors at the same time?
--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:55:17 -0600
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Attaching rear seat belts
Message-ID: <52B3E9D5.30563.3DCD367 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 19 Dec 2013 at 23:44, Dave Hall wrote:
> Sorry, that's not true Jim. Where rear seat-belt mountings are fitted, they
> are quite separate from the OE body-to-pan bolts. The mountings are
> significantly larger bolts than the pan uses - 7/16"-20 UNF bolts, (just
> checked), rather than M8 like the body-bolts. ISTR (but not always
> correctly!) some of the fitting kits I've found have bolt heads around 18mm
> across on those ('proper 7/16" bolts?), but others have 17mm metric heads -
> confusing until I realised! However the thread is an international
> standard.
I knew about the special thread, but I had thought that this was just
for the front belts, and the rear uppers. Now that Dave mentions it,
it's clear that those bolts wouldn't be pan bolts. Sorry for my
error.
--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:55:17 -0600
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Tie rods
Message-ID: <52B3E9D5.22174.3DCD59A at jadney.vwtype3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 19 Dec 2013 at 22:42, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
> Got to still do some little cosmetic things and a TPS or TVS (I?m use
> to the modern car Arcanum). Got to check with Jim or someone who has
> one to see how that is going to set me back. Running unplugged for now
Last time I checked, I discovered that aftermarket tie rod ends are
really quite cheap. If your fix doesn't work, you might want to look
into new ones.
If you're willing, feel free to remove and send me your TPS. I can
check it out and see if there's anything I can do for it. You've got
nothing to lose other than the postage.
--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 08:52:54 -0600
From: "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Tie rods
Message-ID: <008501cefd93$2a023290$7e0697b0$@dekalbk12.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On 19 Dec 2013 at 22:42, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
> Got to still do some little cosmetic things and a TPS or TVS (I?m use
> to the modern car Arcanum). Got to check with Jim or someone who has
> one to see how that is going to set me back. Running unplugged for now
Last time I checked, I discovered that aftermarket tie rod ends are really
quite cheap. If your fix doesn't work, you might want to look into new ones.
If you're willing, feel free to remove and send me your TPS. I can check it
out and see if there's anything I can do for it. You've got nothing to lose
other than the postage.
--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************
_______________________________________________
OK I'll check that out on the tie rods. I wasn't sure about the quality on
the new one. I thought since I had some low miles ones I would try the boot
repair first and see how that goose. My hands are all nicked up from trying
to get the old cotter pens out yesterday. Setting the tow on it was fun as
the computer on wheel alignment set up we have here at the school only goes
back to 83. There is a way to put the alignment specks for an older car in
from a manual like the Bentley but I've got to get with the guy from snap on
to show me how to do that. So I had to set it the old fashion way with an
old school tow bar. I'll try to get that out to you sometime soon. I don?t
guess it will hurt to just run it without one period since I've been going
unplug on it.
Dennis
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 10:48:07 -0800
From: Robert Klein <rabioklein at aol.com>
To: "type3 at vwtype3.org" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Subject: Re: [T3] Tie rods
Message-ID: <ED088A7B-908D-47E9-9FE6-372B322FEC11 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I agree I replaced the tie rod ends, and ball joints for a hundred or so. I forget exactly it's been a few months. After the new trans I see it as cheap LOL
Sent from the desk of Robert Klein
On Dec 20, 2013, at 6:52 AM, "Dennis Stiefel" <dlstiefel at dekalbk12.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 19 Dec 2013 at 22:42, Dennis Stiefel wrote:
>
>> Got to still do some little cosmetic things and a TPS or TVS (I?m use
>> to the modern car Arcanum). Got to check with Jim or someone who has
>> one to see how that is going to set me back. Running unplugged for now
>
> Last time I checked, I discovered that aftermarket tie rod ends are really
> quite cheap. If your fix doesn't work, you might want to look into new ones.
>
> If you're willing, feel free to remove and send me your TPS. I can check it
> out and see if there's anything I can do for it. You've got nothing to lose
> other than the postage.
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> OK I'll check that out on the tie rods. I wasn't sure about the quality on
> the new one. I thought since I had some low miles ones I would try the boot
> repair first and see how that goose. My hands are all nicked up from trying
> to get the old cotter pens out yesterday. Setting the tow on it was fun as
> the computer on wheel alignment set up we have here at the school only goes
> back to 83. There is a way to put the alignment specks for an older car in
> from a manual like the Bentley but I've got to get with the guy from snap on
> to show me how to do that. So I had to set it the old fashion way with an
> old school tow bar. I'll try to get that out to you sometime soon. I don?t
> guess it will hurt to just run it without one period since I've been going
> unplug on it.
>
> Dennis
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
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