[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 21

Fiesta Cranberry fiestacranberry at gmail.com
Wed Jul 23 14:25:17 PDT 2014


No matter what you find, we all understand your disapointment with
being caught up in this. Keith's almost certainly right that this is
a break-in lubrication failure, so this is a lesson for all of us.

I know that Lloyd is fanatical about the oil changes, and that we have been
using pennzoil that he had stashed away.  I remember him saying "You can't
get the proper oil anymore, that's why I've got this stash".  I will ask
him about the zddp stuff.  He is wondering if the problem could be caused
by using the wrong pushrods.  He said he used chromoly, not aluminum, and
he thinks they may have pounded the lifters too hard instead of flexing.

Lori


On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM, <
type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: lifters (topnotch at nycap.rr.com)
>    2. Smoke.... (J. Jonik)
>    3. Re: Smoke.... (Jim Adney)
>    4. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20 (Fiesta Cranberry)
>    5. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20 (Brian Fye)
>    6. Re: lifters (Jim Adney)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:34:25 +0000
> From: <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> Message-ID: <20140722213425.X5QG3.109412.root at cdptpa-web10>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> if you didn't use an oil with ZDDP that is likely to happen.
>
> Keith'
>
> ---- Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net> wrote:
> >  I am about to find that or a flat cam in my 2110...  it sucks!
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 9:02 PM, Fiesta Cranberry <
> fiestacranberry at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > We bought a scope to look up the pushrod tubes.  What we found was that
> the
> > affected lifters (1&3) were completely dry, while the unaffected lifters
> > had plenty of oil on and around them.  Tim @ Berg thinks the lifters may
> > have collapsed.
> >
> >
> > ?We will be taking the engine out ?as soon as we can :(
> >
> >
> > Have any of you seen anything like this?
> >
> > Lori & The Baroness
> > Type 3 1971 auto SB
> > "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
> > won out over it."
> >                                                   ---Elwood P. Dowd
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
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>
>
>
> --
> Brian Fye
> Canyonville Christian Academy
> 541 839 4401 ext. 110
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> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:14:17 -0700
> From: "J. Jonik" <j_jonik at yahoo.com>
> To: Type 3 <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> Subject: [T3] Smoke....
> Message-ID:
>         <1406085257.44143.YahooMailNeo at web126002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> 71 T III Std FI runs just fine....but what's with exhaust smoke puffing
> out at start every two or three times...in hot weather?
>
> Where to start checking....and for what?
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:20:46 -0500
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] Smoke....
> Message-ID: <53CF2A0E.25996.3523C95 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 22 Jul 2014 at 20:14, J. Jonik wrote:
>
> > 71 T III Std FI runs just fine....but what's with exhaust smoke
> > puffing out at start every two or three times...in hot weather?
>
> It's just oil which has pooled along the bottom of one of the
> cylinders when parked. In general it means nothing, other than the
> fact that our cylinders are horizontal, so they don't tend to drain
> very well.
>
> It's worse if you're parked at a slight sideways angle.
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:27:55 -0700
> From: Fiesta Cranberry <fiestacranberry at gmail.com>
> To: VW list <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20
> Message-ID:
>         <CAD=5u+JVLvdS6WfUEUai=
> 8yi+3mTAGhJQMzf6160crRkXV2D6w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> >
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:04:23 -0700
> > From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CACJsKZTfZto6BYQVAOuAOvfXE0UmuykwXs0=dL5fVPPn=CJ=
> > tw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >  I am about to find that or a flat cam in my 2110...  it sucks!
> >
> >
> ?Are you having the same problems, push rod getting too "short"?  Do you
> know what brand of lifters you put in?
>
> Lori?
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:40:10 -0700
> From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CACJsKZSnzZkuSsAZXhBrZfLTRb5CztfbO2pFYqjuiMMNKRtonA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> My engine went through all the required proceedures.  A cam dance and
> didn't go flat in the first 2k miles like most that fail do.
> My cam is a mild lift with stock German lifters.
>
> Because of my wife's car blowing water everywhere, I have not been back
> under my car to verify the cam issue.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Fiesta Cranberry <
> fiestacranberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:04:23 -0700
> > > From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
> > > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > > Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> > > Message-ID:
> > >         <CACJsKZTfZto6BYQVAOuAOvfXE0UmuykwXs0=dL5fVPPn=CJ=
> > > tw at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >
> > >  I am about to find that or a flat cam in my 2110...  it sucks!
> > >
> > >
> > ?Are you having the same problems, push rod getting too "short"?  Do you
> > know what brand of lifters you put in?
> >
> > Lori?
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
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> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Fye
> Canyonville Christian Academy
> 541 839 4401 ext. 110
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:57:37 -0500
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> Message-ID: <53CFA331.8522.2D80CD at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 21 Jul 2014 at 21:02, Fiesta Cranberry wrote:
>
> > We bought a scope to look up the pushrod tubes.  What we found was that
> the
> > affected lifters (1&3) were completely dry, while the unaffected lifters
> > had plenty of oil on and around them.  Tim @ Berg thinks the lifters may
> > have collapsed.
>
> Do you understand that the pushrods are hollow, and they feed oil
> from the lifters to the rockers and rocker shafts? Once this oil
> lubes the valve train, all 8 pushrod tubes serve equally as drains
> for oil as it drains back down from the heads. If some of those
> passages are dry, it may just reflect the slope that the car was
> parked on.
>
> I've tried to find a lifter here to look at and verify, but I haven't
> found one yet. Once you get your engine apart, you'll see that each
> lifter has 2 relieved grooves around it, and one of them has a hole
> that leads into the inside, where it connects to the hole that leads
> to the center that feeds the pushrod tubes. The groove with the hole
> matches up with the oil feed hole in the side of the lifter bore in
> the case, but I can't remember which groove that hole is in.
>
> Berg can machine a slot between the 2 grooves, which allows oil to
> feed from either groove. I believe this allows better oiling with
> high lift cams, but it might explain why these lifters are dry, now
> that the lifters have shifted position in the case.
>
> You should also know that there is a gap in the lifter/pushrod bore,
> in the case, where the draining oil can return to the sump. With the
> engine running, I would expect some engine splash to get in there and
> keep all 8 passages somewhat wet.
>
> So, while I find your observation interesting, I'm not sure what it
> means, and it's not clear that it's actually a symptom of your larger
> problem. Once you get in there, you're going to find either lifters
> with the faces worn away or cam lobes with worn high spots, or both.
> The lifters can't really "collapse" (even though that may be the term
> that is used) and the pushrods themselves don't ever wear shorter.
>
> No matter what you find, we all understand your disapointment with
> being caught up in this. Keith's almost certainly right that this is
> a break-in lubrication failure, so this is a lesson for all of us.
>
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 21
> *************************************************
>



-- 
"I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
won out over it."
                                                  ---Elwood P. Dowd
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