[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 21

topnotch at nycap.rr.com topnotch at nycap.rr.com
Wed Jul 23 16:35:21 PDT 2014


I have never found out exactly when Pennzoil and others dropped the ZDDP but it was around 2001 or 2, I use racing Pennzoil now in the Square but its only available in 25W50 and that's too thick for a new engine.

Keith

---- Fiesta Cranberry <fiestacranberry at gmail.com> wrote: 
> No matter what you find, we all understand your disapointment with
> being caught up in this. Keith's almost certainly right that this is
> a break-in lubrication failure, so this is a lesson for all of us.
> 
> I know that Lloyd is fanatical about the oil changes, and that we have been
> using pennzoil that he had stashed away.  I remember him saying "You can't
> get the proper oil anymore, that's why I've got this stash".  I will ask
> him about the zddp stuff.  He is wondering if the problem could be caused
> by using the wrong pushrods.  He said he used chromoly, not aluminum, and
> he thinks they may have pounded the lifters too hard instead of flexing.
> 
> Lori
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM, <
> type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:
> 
> > Send type3-vwtype3.org mailing list submissions to
> >         type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         type3-vwtype3.org-owner at lists.vwtype3.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of type3-vwtype3.org digest..."
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: lifters (topnotch at nycap.rr.com)
> >    2. Smoke.... (J. Jonik)
> >    3. Re: Smoke.... (Jim Adney)
> >    4. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20 (Fiesta Cranberry)
> >    5. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20 (Brian Fye)
> >    6. Re: lifters (Jim Adney)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:34:25 +0000
> > From: <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> > Message-ID: <20140722213425.X5QG3.109412.root at cdptpa-web10>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > if you didn't use an oil with ZDDP that is likely to happen.
> >
> > Keith'
> >
> > ---- Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net> wrote:
> > >  I am about to find that or a flat cam in my 2110...  it sucks!
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 9:02 PM, Fiesta Cranberry <
> > fiestacranberry at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > > We bought a scope to look up the pushrod tubes.  What we found was that
> > the
> > > affected lifters (1&3) were completely dry, while the unaffected lifters
> > > had plenty of oil on and around them.  Tim @ Berg thinks the lifters may
> > > have collapsed.
> > >
> > >
> > > ?We will be taking the engine out ?as soon as we can :(
> > >
> > >
> > > Have any of you seen anything like this?
> > >
> > > Lori & The Baroness
> > > Type 3 1971 auto SB
> > > "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
> > > won out over it."
> > >                                                   ---Elwood P. Dowd
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <
> > >
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140721/da5c215a/attachment.htm
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian Fye
> > Canyonville Christian Academy
> > 541 839 4401 ext. 110
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140721/813a88e7/attachment.htm
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:14:17 -0700
> > From: "J. Jonik" <j_jonik at yahoo.com>
> > To: Type 3 <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> > Subject: [T3] Smoke....
> > Message-ID:
> >         <1406085257.44143.YahooMailNeo at web126002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > 71 T III Std FI runs just fine....but what's with exhaust smoke puffing
> > out at start every two or three times...in hot weather?
> >
> > Where to start checking....and for what?
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140722/10ea4ccd/attachment.htm
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:20:46 -0500
> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: Re: [T3] Smoke....
> > Message-ID: <53CF2A0E.25996.3523C95 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > On 22 Jul 2014 at 20:14, J. Jonik wrote:
> >
> > > 71 T III Std FI runs just fine....but what's with exhaust smoke
> > > puffing out at start every two or three times...in hot weather?
> >
> > It's just oil which has pooled along the bottom of one of the
> > cylinders when parked. In general it means nothing, other than the
> > fact that our cylinders are horizontal, so they don't tend to drain
> > very well.
> >
> > It's worse if you're parked at a slight sideways angle.
> >
> > --
> > *******************************
> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > *******************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:27:55 -0700
> > From: Fiesta Cranberry <fiestacranberry at gmail.com>
> > To: VW list <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> > Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAD=5u+JVLvdS6WfUEUai=
> > 8yi+3mTAGhJQMzf6160crRkXV2D6w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:04:23 -0700
> > > From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
> > > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > > Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> > > Message-ID:
> > >         <CACJsKZTfZto6BYQVAOuAOvfXE0UmuykwXs0=dL5fVPPn=CJ=
> > > tw at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >
> > >  I am about to find that or a flat cam in my 2110...  it sucks!
> > >
> > >
> > ?Are you having the same problems, push rod getting too "short"?  Do you
> > know what brand of lifters you put in?
> >
> > Lori?
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140722/dc526c2d/attachment.htm
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:40:10 -0700
> > From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 20
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CACJsKZSnzZkuSsAZXhBrZfLTRb5CztfbO2pFYqjuiMMNKRtonA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > My engine went through all the required proceedures.  A cam dance and
> > didn't go flat in the first 2k miles like most that fail do.
> > My cam is a mild lift with stock German lifters.
> >
> > Because of my wife's car blowing water everywhere, I have not been back
> > under my car to verify the cam issue.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Fiesta Cranberry <
> > fiestacranberry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Message: 3
> > > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:04:23 -0700
> > > > From: Brian Fye <bfye at canyonville.net>
> > > > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> > > > Message-ID:
> > > >         <CACJsKZTfZto6BYQVAOuAOvfXE0UmuykwXs0=dL5fVPPn=CJ=
> > > > tw at mail.gmail.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > > >
> > > >  I am about to find that or a flat cam in my 2110...  it sucks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ?Are you having the same problems, push rod getting too "short"?  Do you
> > > know what brand of lifters you put in?
> > >
> > > Lori?
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <
> > >
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140722/dc526c2d/attachment.htm
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian Fye
> > Canyonville Christian Academy
> > 541 839 4401 ext. 110
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140722/90546add/attachment.htm
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:57:37 -0500
> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> > Subject: Re: [T3] lifters
> > Message-ID: <53CFA331.8522.2D80CD at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > On 21 Jul 2014 at 21:02, Fiesta Cranberry wrote:
> >
> > > We bought a scope to look up the pushrod tubes.  What we found was that
> > the
> > > affected lifters (1&3) were completely dry, while the unaffected lifters
> > > had plenty of oil on and around them.  Tim @ Berg thinks the lifters may
> > > have collapsed.
> >
> > Do you understand that the pushrods are hollow, and they feed oil
> > from the lifters to the rockers and rocker shafts? Once this oil
> > lubes the valve train, all 8 pushrod tubes serve equally as drains
> > for oil as it drains back down from the heads. If some of those
> > passages are dry, it may just reflect the slope that the car was
> > parked on.
> >
> > I've tried to find a lifter here to look at and verify, but I haven't
> > found one yet. Once you get your engine apart, you'll see that each
> > lifter has 2 relieved grooves around it, and one of them has a hole
> > that leads into the inside, where it connects to the hole that leads
> > to the center that feeds the pushrod tubes. The groove with the hole
> > matches up with the oil feed hole in the side of the lifter bore in
> > the case, but I can't remember which groove that hole is in.
> >
> > Berg can machine a slot between the 2 grooves, which allows oil to
> > feed from either groove. I believe this allows better oiling with
> > high lift cams, but it might explain why these lifters are dry, now
> > that the lifters have shifted position in the case.
> >
> > You should also know that there is a gap in the lifter/pushrod bore,
> > in the case, where the draining oil can return to the sump. With the
> > engine running, I would expect some engine splash to get in there and
> > keep all 8 passages somewhat wet.
> >
> > So, while I find your observation interesting, I'm not sure what it
> > means, and it's not clear that it's actually a symptom of your larger
> > problem. Once you get in there, you're going to find either lifters
> > with the faces worn away or cam lobes with worn high spots, or both.
> > The lifters can't really "collapse" (even though that may be the term
> > that is used) and the pushrods themselves don't ever wear shorter.
> >
> > No matter what you find, we all understand your disapointment with
> > being caught up in this. Keith's almost certainly right that this is
> > a break-in lubrication failure, so this is a lesson for all of us.
> >
> >
> > --
> > *******************************
> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > *******************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 46, Issue 21
> > *************************************************
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
> won out over it."
>                                                   ---Elwood P. Dowd
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20140723/1325097c/attachment.htm>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> Contact gregm at vwtype3.org if you need help with the list.




More information about the type3-vwtype3.org mailing list