[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 56, Issue 1

Sean Bartnik sjbartnik at mac.com
Fri May 1 15:47:40 PDT 2015


In my experience, that kind of pulsating feeling is due to a rotor or drum that is out of round.  I should say a drum that is out of round or a rotor that is warped.  In a hydraulic system like auto brakes, since the fluid is not compressible, if you have an out-of-round rotating component, you will feel the pushback through the pedal when the out-of-round component forces the piston (of the caliper or wheel cylinder) back against your foot pressure.

If a drum or rotor is out of round, it needs to be turned to true it, this involves removing the high spot by turning the part on a lathe.

If the issue is with a rear brake you are likely to feel it only through the pedal and maybe through the seat of your pants when braking.  If the issue is with a front brake you usually will feel the vibration through the steering wheel as well when braking.  But since you have a noise from the rear it sounds like the rear might be the first place to look.


> On May 1, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Fiesta Cranberry <fiestacranberry at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I took it for a drive today, and I also notice that the brakes are
> definitely "dragging" in a rhythmic manor---I can really feel it when
> coasting.  Sort of a drag...drag...drag...drag feeling that is in synch
> with the brake pedal pushing against my foot, and the soft scree noise from
> the rear.  Definitely the brake is rubbing and dragging on the car.  I
> couldn't push it out of the garage by hand---had to start it aand back
> out.  I'm wondering if they damaged a rotor?
> 
> Lori & The B., 1971 SB AT
> 
> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 1:42 PM, <type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org
>> wrote:
> 
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>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: Flexible steering coupler (Dave Hall)
>>   2. Re: Flexible steering coupler (Keith Park)
>>   3. brakes (Fiesta Cranberry)
>>   4. Re: 1973 Fasty Back on the Road! (Phil Hof)
>>   5. Re: brakes (Dave Hall)
>>   6. Re: brakes (Jim Adney)
>>   7. Re: type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 55, Issue 14 (Doug Brashear)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 01:11:08 +0100
>> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Flexible steering coupler
>> Message-ID: <1720FA635F2048AE877129275B4B3B0E at DavidPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Thanks Bob - the body may have become feeble but the head is still OK then!
>> It seemed that was probably a better way to go - might even do best with
>> the
>> spare wheel well out and stand in the hole with the car on the ground -
>> easy
>> enough to still turn the steering on gravel to get the required bolt at the
>> top.  Old cotter pins are hard to remove - I've had to do that on track-rod
>> (tie-rod) ends. Maybe now stainless are common it would be better, but the
>> mild steel ones always rusted in.  I can't imagine how hard it was to drill
>> through in that position
>> 
>> Thanks for the warning on the coupler.  I've two genuine NOS VW ones in my
>> parts, not poor quality repros, and they are the rubber impregnated fabric
>> with spacers.  Some I've seen have something like rivets, and definitely
>> are
>> very inferior.  I remember the one I changed decades ago was badly cracked,
>> but the fabric was still holding things together.
>> 
>> I guess the column housing may need disturbing to get a bit of clearance to
>> remove the old and fit the new - we'll see.
>> 
>> Dave
>> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> ===================
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:
>> type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> Sent: 30 April 2015 18:04
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Flexible steering coupler
>> 
>> In a message dated 4/30/15 11:23:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
>> dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk writes:
>> 
>>> Any tips on this job?
>>> 
>>> BTW, the nuts and bolts are actually M8 but with 14mm heads and nyloc
>> nuts,
>>> and have Beetle part numbers.  You learn something new every day.
>> 
>> Dave, the best advice for replacing the coupler rubber, is to do it with
>> the
>> tank out. Yes, the back might complain, but you can get a better purchase
>> on
>> the nuts and bolts. Yes, what you've found is something I've run across
>> myself. In fact on the early cars (thru 64) VW actually used castle nuts
>> and
>> cotter pins on those bolts. :O  Same 14mm size though. Thought the small
>> cotter pins were really out of place, but then that's 1 area you don't want
>> anything coming loose. ;-) Also, make sure the coupler you get has the
>> cloth
>> inside it, as quite a few of these are now being made without it. And when
>> they start to crack, they fail completely, leaving you with very little
>> steering. Just a heads up, and I hope this helps.
>> Bob</HTML>
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:22:47 -0400
>> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Flexible steering coupler
>> Message-ID: <D6.B1.15482.C47C2455 at cdptpa-oedge02>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Yes, one of the ONLY 14mm on the T3 on the steering coupler!
>> pull the tank, MUCH easier, and make sure the new one your using has the
>> thread reinforcment in it, and not one that just has rubber as they tend to
>> crack quickly and break completely.  Id personally prefer a slightly
>> cracked
>> original with the tread in it than a new straight rubber one.
>> 
>> Keiht
>> 
>> 
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> 71 Squareback  "Hothe"
>> 65 Squareback  "Eggcrate"
>> 65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
>> 93 RX7  "Redstur"
>> 87 Golf  "Winterat"
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:
>> type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of Dave Hall
>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 12:15 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: [T3] Flexible steering coupler
>> 
>> I doubt I've changed one of the rubber steering couplers in years, but the
>> tester last year said it was slightly cracked, so I thought I'd better see
>> to it before offering it up for this year's test.  I had been putting it
>> off, as I want to replace the rusting and much-patched wing (fender) that
>> side and it seemed a good chance to work on both.
>> 
>> It took a while to lift the front, support it, take off the wheel, and even
>> longer to puzzle out the best way to undo the 4 bolts. They didn't seem to
>> be 13mm or 15mm heads, hmm, maybe 14mm then - not very common on a Type 3,
>> though the '59 Beetle had them everywhere.   Access wasn't good either -
>> the
>> beam gets in the way, so does the steering column collapsible web.  I
>> didn't
>> seem to have an extension that suited the job.  Then there was the age
>> factor - awkward angle to work at, not enough strength at arms length, a
>> bit
>> of a creaky shoulder etc. - just a few of the penalties of the passing
>> years!
>> 
>> What should have taken an hour left me so frustrated after a couple of
>> hours, that I just nipped up the wheel bearing that the inspector had
>> reported as having slight play and put things back.  I'll probably remove
>> the tank when I do the wing, along with some preventive maintenance - it's
>> not very hard on a carbed car, and I suspect the little seal on the tank
>> inlet pipe isn't sealing as well as it should.  I assume working down from
>> above will be easier - as long as the back doesn't complain instead!  I
>> think the horn wire link is high resistance, so I can renew or clean that
>> as
>> another benefit of the job.
>> 
>> Any tips on this job?
>> 
>> BTW, the nuts and bolts are actually M8 but with 14mm heads and nyloc nuts,
>> and have Beetle part numbers.  You learn something new every day.
>> 
>> Dave.
>> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> ===================
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:01:48 -0700
>> From: Fiesta Cranberry <fiestacranberry at gmail.com>
>> To: VW list <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: [T3] brakes
>> Message-ID:
>>        <CAD=
>> 5u+JCdygdkXtJPBrxnO+N4__mW8+5x0-uXzFUJDE657UHgQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> hi guys,
>> I finally had the master cylinder replaced in The Baroness---it had
>> completely given out on me.
>> 
>> The brakes work now, but I'm noticing 2 things.  First is a weird kind of
>> "chatter" when I put my foot lightly on the brake pedal.  It's like the
>> pedal is fighting me, in a rapid, da da da da da da da kind of push up
>> against my foot.
>> 
>> The second is a soft scree scree scree coming from (I think) the passenger
>> side back wheel.  I notice it when I'm coasting.  The brakes also seem to
>> grab very quickly and hard.
>> 
>> Is this normal?  I've never noticed this before.  I'm using a new guy, so I
>> wanted to check in with you before I take it back.
>> 
>> Lori and The Baroness, 71 SB AT
>> 
>> --
>> "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
>> won out over it."
>>                                                  ---Elwood P. Dowd
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:15:03 -0700
>> From: Phil Hof <phil.hof at ostronic.org>
>> To: type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] 1973 Fasty Back on the Road!
>> Message-ID: <B057F747-FF7B-4FF8-AA06-E2E112C2464B at ostronic.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> 
>> 
>> Congrats on getting her back on the road and looking so sharp!
>> 
>> Interesting that you have pop outs on a ?71 with the flow-through
>> ventilation slots in the C-pillars.  I had that mod done on mine while it
>> was apart and without a headliner, and it is non-trivial to get it done
>> right.  Do you know how it was done on yours?  Now that ISP West is
>> reproducing quality pop out seals, they may become more desirable than ever
>> before.
>> -Phil
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 12:29:40 +0100
>> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] brakes
>> Message-ID: <C2F2EA2EC93947858B8883FA125F8846 at DavidPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Hi Lori,
>> Sounds like the friction surfaces are grabbing and releasing.  If the
>> master
>> cylinder hasn't been working properly for a while, there may be a bit of
>> surface rust. Are the discs shiny, or a bit rusty? That's more common in
>> damp places than California, though.  The rear drums can suffer the same.
>> Sometimes chamfering the leading ends of the shoes helps. Were the pads or
>> shoes renewed, or just the M/C?  If so, they may take a little while to
>> bed-in.
>> 
>> Dave
>> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> ===================
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:
>> type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of Fiesta Cranberry
>> Sent: 01 May 2015 04:02
>> To: VW list
>> Subject: [T3] brakes
>> 
>> hi guys,
>> I finally had the master cylinder replaced in The Baroness---it had
>> completely given out on me.
>> 
>> The brakes work now, but I'm noticing 2 things.  First is a weird kind of
>> "chatter" when I put my foot lightly on the brake pedal.  It's like the
>> pedal is fighting me, in a rapid, da da da da da da da kind of push up
>> against my foot.
>> 
>> The second is a soft scree scree scree coming from (I think) the passenger
>> side back wheel.  I notice it when I'm coasting.  The brakes also seem to
>> grab very quickly and hard.
>> 
>> Is this normal?  I've never noticed this before.  I'm using a new guy, so I
>> wanted to check in with you before I take it back.
>> 
>> Lori and The Baroness, 71 SB AT
>> 
>> --
>> "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
>> won
>> out over it."
>>                                                  ---Elwood P. Dowd
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>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
>> subscription options, visit:
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>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 07:26:09 -0500
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] brakes
>> Message-ID: <554370E1.13937.1FD971 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> 
>> On 30 Apr 2015 at 20:01, Fiesta Cranberry wrote:
>> 
>>> The brakes work now, but I'm noticing 2 things.  First is a weird kind of
>>> "chatter" when I put my foot lightly on the brake pedal.  It's like the
>>> pedal is fighting me, in a rapid, da da da da da da da kind of push up
>>> against my foot.
>> 
>> Not sure what this is, but I've experienced something similar with
>> certain brake fluids that seem to lack lubricity, so that the seals
>> in the MC seem to be sticking in the MC bore as they go down. I get a
>> sort of stick-slip effect: stick-stick-stick...stick. Sort of a long
>> scriiiiiiiich as I push the pedal down. It's as if things were
>> "squeaky clean" inside the MC.
>> 
>> The end result of this was that the MC seals wore out quickly (a
>> couple of years) from the friction. The brake fluid that did this to
>> me was Castrol LMA, which is normally considered a good product, but
>> this problem went away when I switched to DOT-5 silicone brake fluid,
>> which has excellent rubber to metal lubricity. The Castrol is a DOT-4
>> fluid. A run of the mill DOT-3 fluid would probably also work better.
>> 
>>> The second is a soft scree scree scree coming from (I think) the
>> passenger
>>> side back wheel.  I notice it when I'm coasting.  The brakes also seem to
>>> grab very quickly and hard.
>> 
>> It could be nothing, just some rust sticking up and touching the
>> rotating drum, or it could be a sign that the brakes on one wheel are
>> adjusted a tad too tight. There are also some small parts which hold
>> the rear brake shoes in place against the brake backing plate.
>> Sometimes when these get old, they come apart and fall to the bottom
>> of the drum, where they slide and make noise. Those parts could
>> probably just be left out, or they could be replaced if you can find
>> Type 3 replacements. There's a spring, a pin, and a washer: two of
>> each on each wheel. I think only the pin is Type 3 specific.
>> 
>> --
>> *******************************
>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> *******************************
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 13:45:05 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Doug Brashear <dougbrashear at yahoo.com>
>> To: "type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org"
>>        <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 55, Issue 14
>> Message-ID:
>>        <1390877842.281794.1430487905876.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> J L said:
>>> Very NICE Doug! Good to see another VA T3 on the road!
>>> Since she's on the road Doug, are you going to make it to BUGOUT in
>>> Petersburg VA this May? It's the 24th, Sunday. There's usually 2 BUGOUTS
>> a
>>> yr, but this year there's only one. I think the BU may return to it's
>> home
>>> next yr which is in Manassas VA.
>>> I'll be there. It's be nice to see that slick green fasty at this yrs BU.
>> 
>> Hey!
>> Yes, I'm definitely going to be there but may be driving the bus instead.
>> My youngest daughter is coming with me and depending on how the day goes we
>> may camp overnight instead of heading back to NoVA same-day. If we do
>> planning on doing it same-day, though, and I feel confident enough in the
>> Fastback by then I'll try to bring it. 10 years of not being driven is a
>> lot of confidence in its abilities that I have to restore, even despite all
>> the work I've done. In particular I'm still fiddling with the brakes. After
>> adjusting them they almost seem to have too much pedal. The brakes don't
>> seem to drag, and definitely don't lock up, but the pedal action is a
>> little different than what I remembered having. The whole brake system has
>> been refreshed, though, so maybe it just needs to wear in.
>> - Doug :-)
>> 
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>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 56, Issue 1
>> ************************************************
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I've finally
> won out over it."
>                                                  ---Elwood P. Dowd
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