[T3] Mystery Miss

Thu May 12 10:38:53 PDT 2016

16 &24 both go to the voltage supply relay on terminal 87 through T2 so it 
seems their voltage comes from the same source and yes as Jim stated they 
are two different leads beginning at the VSR . It does not seem to matter 
which wire number from the VSR goes to 16 & 24 , only real diff is the 
length at the ECU connector.

 It does sound like somewhere there is a loose connection . Where does the 
FI harness and the supply harness or body harness begin and end ? I would 
start there and work your way back to the ECU to see where the problem is. 
Just check each wire one then the other . I was thinking Jim meant heat 
shrink when he meant sleeving.

 William
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Nohejl" <d.nohejl at gmail.com>
To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [T3] Mystery Miss

> Jim, to cut off the motor, I gently touched together the ends of the black 
> and white wires….I can’t recall their numbers….16 and 24?. Thing is, the 
> ends were covered in several layers of electrical tape. Shouldn’t that 
> have provided enough insulation so that touching them together wouldn’t 
> have cut off the motor? Should touching them together cut out the motor at 
> all? Based on what you wrote last night, it seems not, yet it happened 
> repeatedly with only gentle contact. I guess I’m also asking because I 
> wonder if it’s not even a matter of insulation or not and if using heat 
> shrink would matter.
>
> William….The black and white wires are the ones coming into the connectors 
> from the left. The connectors are female weatherproof ones with heat 
> shrink ends. There aren’t any butt connectors.
>
> I think I may have mentioned this already but the green wire with red 
> connectors was necessitated by a miscommunication with the harness builder 
> that resulted in us getting the wrong gender ends. The black and white 
> wires on the main harness are male and so are the ones they connect to on 
> the FI harness. Because of this, we’re always going to have to run a 
> mini-harness to connect the ends or else permanently change the gender of 
> the connectors on the FI harness like Jim was talking about.
>
> Anyway, the exciting thing was that for the first time in over a year of 
> intermittent random engine cut out, bucking/missing, and bucking/missing 
> followed by engine cut out, we were able to replicate all three problems 
> by playing with those wires!!!
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>> On May 11, 2016, at 11:39 PM, William J <catnine09 at dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am sort of lost here. I will offer my 2 cents . I feel the less amount 
>> of connectors the better . I don't see a black or white wire in the photo 
>> they must be up and more to the front of the engine. You need some sort 
>> of connector if you need to disconnect the ECU from the main harness. 
>> Just from the  photo I would get rid of the two sets of red male and 
>> female butt connectors and make a solid slice . I prefer tinned wires 
>> then slide on heat shrink far back so it won't shrink from solder iron 
>> heat then meet the tinned ends at their centers and twist center out and 
>> solder then slide the heat shink over the splice and shrink it to seal 
>> the joint. Use long enough wires to reach the ends you had taped and add 
>> a bit so you can tie the harness up away from the motor then add two 
>> female ends to connect to the taped male ends which also need to be 
>> covered and sealed . If you don't solder then used butt connectors to the 
>> black and white leads yet still use heat shrink over the butt connectors 
>> and shrink it. You need to keep them dry and sealed . You end up with 
>> only two male and female connectors and the two butt splices. Ford used 
>> to make red butt connectors that had a heat shrink build into the ends to 
>> seal them , don't know but someone has to offer them. If you don't need 
>> to unplug the harness use butt connectors at both ends with heat shrink . 
>> Connectors are always the trouble source.
>>
>> Do you have a better photo of what you have now?
>>
>> William
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Nohejl" <d.nohejl at gmail.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 5:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] Mystery Miss
>>
>>
>>> Ok, I think we may have solved it!
>>>
>>> Figuring something must be loose because bumps would trigger the 
>>> problem, we started tugging on wires and connectors with the motor 
>>> running. By tugging on where the MPS wiring meets the power wires for 
>>> the ECU, we were able to get the motor to miss repeatedly at idle. It 
>>> took a while to figure out if it was the MPS itself, the MPS wiring, or 
>>> the power wires. At one point, in moving wires, the motor cut out 
>>> entirely. After more careful jiggling and isolating all the wires from 
>>> each other, we isolated the problem to the ECU power wires. If they were 
>>> jiggled just so, the motor would miss. On two occasions, I was able to 
>>> get the motor to cut out entirely.
>>>
>>> It’s funny, but I think I just mentioned a day or two ago that when we 
>>> got our new harness back in January of 2013 we had to build a 
>>> mini-harness to connect the main wiring harness to the FI harness. This 
>>> is a picture from 3.5 years ago of what we have so there’s no longer a 
>>> worm clamp on the MPS hose (which has been renewed several times) and 
>>> the exposed metal on the connectors has long since been covered with 
>>> electrical tape
>>>
>>> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1503546.jpg 
>>> <http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1503546.jpg>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing was that when I touched the electrical taped ends 
>>> of the black and white power wires together, the motor stalled. This may 
>>> have been our issue going back to last year!! Based on engine vibration 
>>> and whatnot, those wires could have been coming in and out of contact 
>>> with each other for a long time. Brief contact could be the miss and 
>>> sustained contact could be the motor cut out.
>>>
>>> For the short term, we routed the wires well apart from each other so 
>>> they can’t come into contact. However, we still have our original T2 
>>> connector. I was thinking that unless there’s an issue with doing so, we’d 
>>> snip the male connectors off of our FI harness, use some butt connectors 
>>> to install a little bit more wire, fit some female connectors, and run 
>>> them through the T2 connector so they fit to the long male ends of our 
>>> main harness. Does this sound like a valid fix?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 11, 2016, at 2:52 PM, William J <catnine09 at dslextreme.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> These boots used to come with Bosch plug wire sets yet they were black 
>>>> and lasted decades . he first set I got came with 8 . They do tend to 
>>>> hang on the spark plugs yet easy to get them out with long nose pliers 
>>>> without wrecking them.
>>>>
>>>> William
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at VWType3.org>
>>>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 9:46 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [T3] Mystery Miss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 11 May 2016 at 9:29, Jim Adney wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The VW part # is 311 905 444A. I just called my dealer and they said
>>>>>> this is still a good number, but the price is now out of sight: 
>>>>>> $22.91
>>>>>> each!
>>>>>
>>>>> I just discovered that if I leave the A off the search, I get a lot
>>>>> more hits. The price comes down to $16 or 8 Euros (less than $9)
>>>>> each. Dave Hall might be able to buy some for 8 Euros in England and
>>>>> bring them to the Invasion. They're small, so not a problem to pack.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> *******************************
>>>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>> *******************************
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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