[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
William J
catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Sun Dec 10 11:01:15 PST 2017
There is no pure gasoline here. As far as I know it's all 10% Ethonal .
I thought it was odd that it pinged all of a sudden ,one day it didn't and
the next day it did. My first thought was the fuel and then the time it sits
in the tank. I filled up on Aug 1st then it was summer blend then added 4
gallons a few weeks back . It didn't ping right away and I really didn't
count the days then I addded 3 gallons of 89 octane before I changed the
Dist. It stopped pinging .
The issue with the idle has been going on for years . Sometimes it seens to
run fine and others not . It started this in 2009 . I wasn't paying
attention to fuel yet if I recall the ethonal was only 6 % before 2009. It's
next to impossible to find any info on the fuel sold .
On FI you can't really tune around it . The only way is adjusting the MPS .
People who run carbs re jet . The only way to know is everytime an engine
begins to run bad you would need to have someone at a smog station check
then you adjust what you can and pay to check it again.
My opinion , they don't realy care about people with old cars there's not
that many of them and even some fairly new cars 5 or 6 years old have engine
issues with 10% with the fuel doing damage to the fuel system . I only know
because of searching the internet. It's just like the engine oil that
without additives can ruin flat tappet cams .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel East" <nigelgeast at gmail.com>
To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
> What fuel are you using, is it a methanol blend, If so I would suggest
> trying it on Pure Gasoline and see if there is a difference, there is a
> possibility the methanol is evaporating off and causing a difference in
> the
> initial fuel mixture that is causing the Ping. this would also account for
> the differences in idle speed,
> Regards
> Nigel
>
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 5:24 AM, <
> type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> 2. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>> 3. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>> 4. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (Keith Park)
>> 5. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>> 6. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> 7. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (Jim Adney)
>> 8. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (William J)
>> 9. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> 10. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:44:28 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <3db069.2312f6a4.475dc14c at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>>
>> What it does now is
>> start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a
>> short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle
>> drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
>> 950.
>>
>> I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor
>> richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much
>> .
>> I
>> have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
>>
>>
>> The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
>> because
>> of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head temp
>> sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to lean
>> out
>> the mix. This might be what you're seeing.
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:51:47 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <94B8B479ED2948CCAEDFC1BDEDA58BD2 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Bobsnotch at aol.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 2:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> > In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> > catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>> >
>> > What it does now is
>> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with
>> > a
>> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the
>> > idle
>> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
>> > 950.
>> >
>> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor
>> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so
>> > much
>> .
>> > I
>> > have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
>> >
>> >
>> > The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
>> > because
>> > of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
>>
>> Yes that I agree is normal .
>> >
>> > I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head
>> > temp
>> > sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to
>> > lean
>> > out
>> > the mix. This might be what you're seeing.
>>
>> I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't
>> help
>> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
>> dropped to 70 ohm hot.
>>
>> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it
>> does
>> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
>> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the
>> head
>> temp sensor heats up that fast. I haven't gone to the extent of removing
>> the
>> sensor and heating it in oil to see at what temps it reads what ohm value
>> .
>> >From what 've read the reason the engine will not start with it
>> >unplugged
>> is
>> because it causes an over rich condition it seems to indicate the ECU
>> needs
>> to see resistance at all times. I just know it will not start or run with
>> it
>> unplugged. I have pots that I can dial in any where from 0 to 1 K ohm and
>> dial in 70 ohm to see what it does yet no way of reading actual head
>> temp.
>> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all
>> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and
>> T3's
>> .
>>
>> Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not
>> sure
>> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
>> >
>> > Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
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>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
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>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:57:16 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <8A02408C6F494192AFA29DC3C56B4A96 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=response
>>
>> If I could call someone with this cell phone and have them listen to the
>> change with the sensor in and out of the system it would be impossible to
>> miss.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 11:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> > I think it's possible and even probable .
>> >
>> > There is just one detail I wanted to add. I just want to stress one
>> point.
>> > I don't recall if I brought this up about when I start the car cold
>> > well
>> > before the ping thing . The AAR would be open , the idle would be set
>> > at
>> > 950 , in a minute the idle would rise to 1500 RPM and once in reverse
>> drop
>> > back down . As soon as I placed it back in park it would hang at 1500
>> > for
>> > a while. And not to dwell on the unplugged air temp sensor . I just
>> > drove
>> > it today and last Thursday with the sensor un plugged and it no longer
>> > does this. From what I understand The AAR is only to allow air to
>> > bypass
>> > the closed throttle plate and the MPS senses this adding more fuel .
>> > It's
>> > not supposed to increase the RPM that much perhaps a bit yet not 550
>> RPM's
>> > higher than the set base idle . Since it rises so much it in fact
>> advances
>> > the timing which it will because of the RPM increase . What it does now
>> is
>> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a
>> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle
>> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
>> 950.
>> > About a year ago it would have the 1500 RPM right away and if I let it
>> > idle it would stay there for a good 15 to 20 minutes then drop to the
>> > 950
>> > and begin the erratic miss.
>> >
>> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor
>> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much
>> > .
>> > I have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think . On the
>> other
>> > end and only by a few people on Samba I am told to adjust the MPS . My
>> > thinking is not to mess with the MPS I feel it just work as is . It
>> > does
>> > not leak and the 2 readings 90 ohm and 350 ohms are when they should
>> > be
>> > and it's the proper one for my E system..
>> >
>> > I do agree with a long drive yet based just on what the sensor does and
>> > it's not just the idle that smooths out it runs better as I drive it.
>> Once
>> > I pulled the Dist that was sticking and installed the AH and timed it
>> > it
>> > lost a bit of pickup that came back with the sensor unplugged. I
>> > imagine
>> > there is some difference between the two distibutors advanc curve. Yet
>> > this did not fix the erratic miss that remained the same.
>> >
>> > Do I look for a vacuum leak?
>> >
>> > I am just trying to find out why this is. I'd rather run rich than lean
>> > for obvious reasons.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 5:10 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 9 Dec 2017 at 11:18, Dave Hall wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
>> >>> good
>> >>> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
>> far
>> >>> at
>> >>> all.
>> >>> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in
>> >>> a
>> >>> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> 'soot'.
>> >>> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I'll second that. William has said he never gets the car above 45
>> >> mi/hr,
>> >> so let's see what a couple hours at 65-70 does.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *******************************
>> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> *******************************
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 19:55:33 -0500
>> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <mailman.3731.1512867333.15231.type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
>> Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed
>> alot could straighten itself out.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
>> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
>> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
>> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of William J
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>> It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was
>> 2006
>> except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some side
>> streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same
>> thing as fully warming it up .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> >I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
>> >good
>> > drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
>> > far
>> > at
>> > all.
>> > I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in a
>> > 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> > 'soot'.
>> > Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> > ===================
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> > On Behalf Of Jim Adney
>> > Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
>> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> > On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
>> >
>> > Content removed
>> >
>> > --
>> > *******************************
>> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> > *******************************
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:21:00 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <97E0766682E44E99BA2FAD5A4BCA5305 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> That may have to be on hold since the entire area around us and most
>> freeways are iffy since everything around here is on fire.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 4:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> > These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
>> > Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed
>> > alot could straighten itself out.
>> >
>> > Keith
>> >
>> >
>> > Topnotch Restorations
>> > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> > http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> > 71 Squareback "Hothe"
>> > 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
>> > 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>> > 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> > On Behalf Of William J
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
>> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> > It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was
>> 2006
>> > except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some
>> > side
>> > streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same
>> > thing as fully warming it up .
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> >
>> >>I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
>> >>good
>> >> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
>> >> far
>> >> at
>> >> all.
>> >> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in
>> >> a
>> >> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> >> 'soot'.
>> >> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> >> ===================
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> >> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
>> >> Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >> On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Content removed
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *******************************
>> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> *******************************
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 20:58:18 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> Message-ID: <3dcb93.28c8db59.475deeba at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 8:30:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> phil.hof at ostronic.org writes:
>>
>> Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
>> different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum
>> leaks that
>> might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has a good
>> diagram
>> and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could set this right
>> and
>> eliminate another variable.
>>
>> This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
>> system
>> VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and causes a miss.
>> What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the guts of the valve,
>> and
>> add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't remember what size right off
>> hand) in the vac hose to the plenum. What this does is allow you to tune
>> around the "constant vacuum leak" of the small hole. I only mention
>> this,
>> as
>> all of the type 4 engines (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up,
>> and
>> have issues with it. I haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV
>> system
>> really works, but then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on
>> carbs.
>> The rest of the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real
>> PCV
>> set up.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 20:12:56 -0600
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> Message-ID: <5A2C9828.25597.3886425A at jadney.vwtype3.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> On 9 Dec 2017 at 20:58, Bobsnotch at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
>> > system VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and
>> > causes a miss. What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the
>> > guts of the valve, and add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't
>> > remember what size right off hand) in the vac hose to the plenum. What
>> > this does is allow you to tune around the "constant vacuum leak" of
>> > the small hole. I only mention this, as all of the type 4 engines
>> > (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, and have issues with it. I
>> > haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV system really works, but
>> > then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on carbs. The rest of
>> > the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real PCV set
>> > up.
>>
>> All '72-3 FI Type 3s came with the 2 cap breather system. I've had
>> several
>> of
>> them and they were all fine. No problems whatsoever. There's already a
>> tiny
>> little pinhole where that air enters the IAD, so there's no way for this
>> to be
>> overwhelming.
>>
>> --
>> *******************************
>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> *******************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:16:15 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> Message-ID: <CFE3F08263CF46348EED4D272175B160 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil Hof" <phil.hof at ostronic.org>
>> To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>>
>>
>> > You answered my first thought, which is if the MPS leaks or not. You
>> said
>> > no., so let?s table the MPS for now.
>> >
>> > Next, I wonder if your injector tip seals are bad. This would allow
>> > air
>> > in, causing leanness in any leaking cylinders (and perhaps pinging on
>> > that/those cylinders), but because it?s maybe only one of four, and so
>> far
>> > from the MPS, it may not tip off the MPS much to enrichen things, and
>> your
>> > ?pull the TS plug? enriches it enough to alleviate the pinging, those
>> > it
>> > makes the other, non-leaking cylinders run rich.
>>
>> The pinging stopped once I installed the other dist I rebuilt. I had
>> this
>> same issue not the pinging that was new and vever happened before. In
>> 2009
>> when this started I replaced the injector seals . It was the last thing I
>> did because I had to wait for them to arrive and I had high hopes yet new
>> ones didn't help . Before this began all I did was put the heat
>> exchangers
>> back on instead of the J pipes. Changed all the fuel lines and filter .
>> adjusted the valves , changed the plugs which were Bosch that I had from
>> 97
>> , oil change . This was when I joined Samba to see if anyone might know .
>> I
>> went as far as to check every single wire ECU umplugged and checked for
>> opens or shorts . I replaced vaccum lines nad the PVC hose . I've only
>> put
>> a
>> little over 2 K miles on it since . It always came down to unplugging
>> that
>> sensor . I got another MPS that was never used and it was better. I
>> replaced
>> the plug wires and cap and rotor , gone over the valves twice in 2016 .
>> tightened every single FI connector and the FI to case grounds. . I
>> thought
>> with all of this it would improve and at times it did yet never lasted
>> long.
>> Went through the charging system . Checked for voltage drops . The FI
>> power
>> relay is the original as is the fuel pump relay . It's possible I suppose
>> the power relay contacts are not allowing full voltage to the ECU , that
>> was
>> next on my list . I never really had a reason to suspect it it did have
>> battery voltage at the ECU last I checked.
>> >
>> > Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
>> > different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum
>> > leaks that might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has a
>> > good diagram and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could
>> set
>> > this right and eliminate another variable. Ot just scan the Samba
>> > classified and put in the older, simpler, PVC/breather system.
>>
>> The PCV system seems to do it's job and to plug off the head ports and
>> PCV
>> to IAD pipe wouldn't be that difficult . I only know of two breathers
>> that
>> would work . One is the old draft tube and the other requires replacing
>> the
>> oil filler tube and dip stick I think there's one that has one nipple on
>> the
>> one cap breather that connects to the oil bath yet don't know it that's
>> the
>> entire venting or if it involves the tube down to the oil filler . I
>> can't
>> find much info. If the PCV broke I'd have to figure something out . All
>> it
>> needs is a way to vent case pressure without sucking up oil in the
>> process
>> .
>> >
>> > -Phil
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:22:02 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <3dcd7e.6df83fd1.475df44a at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:30:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>>
>> I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't
>> help
>> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
>> dropped to 70 ohm hot.
>>
>> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it
>> does
>> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
>> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the
>> head
>> temp sensor heats up that fast.
>> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all
>> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and
>> T3's
>> .
>>
>> Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not
>> sure
>> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
>>
>> For your air temps, you should be have a reading of around 22-23K when
>> cold. At 27K, your air temp should be around 30*F, which would be very
>> cold
>> for So Cal-Hollywood. Your "hot" temp should be above 100 ohms, with it
>> "bottoming out" around 125 ohms or so. Anything below that just keeps
>> leaning
>> out the mixture. This is why I mentioned ballasting the HTS. If you're
>> wanting to err on the rich side, a 400 or even a 500 ohm resister is what
>> you'd
>> want to put in line with the HTS.
>> Yes, all of the new HTS's that are available now are the same build, and
>> now are used on all air cooled VWs. It's not ideal, but they do kind of
>> work. What you really want to do is check the resistance range before
>> installing, as it might need ballast right out of the box. It's a real
>> shame Denso
>> doesn't make a replacement of them, as the quality might be better (more
>> like the older Bosch units) than what's available today.
>>
>> What Ray's theory is that 70 is below the threshold is from studying the
>> Bosch books, and working with D-jet (both in t-4 and t-3 ) applications.
>> There's info out there, but a majority is for the 914 (uses the same
>> system
>> basically), as those owners WANT to keep the D-Jet FI working
>> correctly.Plus,
>> they have the cash to have specialized parts made to do so. I'm not
>> saying
>> VW people can't have the parts made, but rather most give up and go to
>> carbs because it's easier to do so.Plus, they're not "concourse" type of
>> vehicles like Porsche or Mercedees people show at special events.
>>
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:24:38 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <3dcdd0.494dbfb8.475df4e6 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:55:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> fisherfarms at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> My '69 FI/AT 1600 never seems to vary more than about 50 rpm?
>>
>> Yeah, but Mike your car gets tuned by Tram when it acts up. It's also
>> got
>> the more "primitive" FI system, versus what William is dealing with.
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
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>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
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