[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11

[Keith Park]

OVer the years Ive had to significantly richen the mixture on my Square
because of the modern gas, but yea... you really have to know what your
doing to adjust the FI.  With stepped heads and flat tops, I can run 87 in
town but not on the highway in the warmer weather.

Keith


Topnotch Restorations
topnotch at nycap.rr.com
http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
71 Squareback  "Hothe"
65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
93 RX7  "Redstur"
95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
 
-----Original Message-----
From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
On Behalf Of William J
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:01 PM
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11

There is no pure gasoline here. As far as I know it's all 10% Ethonal .

 I thought it was odd that it pinged all of a sudden ,one day it didn't and 
the next day it did. My first thought was the fuel and then the time it sits

in the tank. I filled up on Aug 1st then it was summer blend then added 4 
gallons a few weeks back . It didn't ping right away and I really didn't 
count the days then I addded 3 gallons of 89 octane before I changed the 
Dist. It stopped pinging .

 The issue with the idle has been going on for years . Sometimes it seens to

run fine and others not . It started this in 2009 . I wasn't paying 
attention to fuel yet if I recall the ethonal was only 6 % before 2009. It's

next to impossible to find any info on the fuel sold .

 On FI you can't really tune around it . The only way is adjusting the MPS .

People who run carbs re jet . The only way to know is everytime an engine 
begins to run bad you would need to have someone at a smog station check 
then you adjust what you can and pay to check it again.

 My opinion , they don't realy care about people with old cars there's not 
that many of them and even some fairly new cars 5 or 6 years old have engine

issues with 10% with the fuel doing damage to the fuel system . I only know 
because of searching the internet. It's just like the engine oil that 
without additives can ruin flat tappet cams .
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nigel East" <nigelgeast at gmail.com>
To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11


> What fuel are you using, is it a methanol blend, If so I would suggest
> trying it on Pure Gasoline and see if there is a difference, there is a
> possibility the methanol is evaporating off and causing a difference in 
> the
> initial fuel mixture that is causing the Ping. this would also account for
> the differences in idle speed,
> Regards
> Nigel
>
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 5:24 AM, <
> type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:
>
>> Send type3-vwtype3.org mailing list submissions to
>>         type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         type3-vwtype3.org-owner at lists.vwtype3.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of type3-vwtype3.org digest..."
>>
>>
>> ***********************************
>> When replying to the digest, please remember to trim your message. 
>> Thanks!
>> :)
>> ***********************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>       (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>>    2. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>>    3. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>>    4. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (Keith Park)
>>    5. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>>    6. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>>       (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>>    7. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (Jim Adney)
>>    8. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (William J)
>>    9. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>       (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>>   10. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>       (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:44:28 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <3db069.2312f6a4.475dc14c at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>>
>> What it  does now is
>> start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive  only with a
>> short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm  the idle
>> drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park  rises to 
>> 950.
>>
>> I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp  sensor
>> richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so  much 
>> .
>> I
>> have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
>>
>>
>> The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is 
>> because
>>  of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head temp
>> sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to lean
>> out
>> the  mix. This might be what you're seeing.
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch  w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> attachments/20171209/4d1be43e/attachment.html>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:51:47 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <94B8B479ED2948CCAEDFC1BDEDA58BD2 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>         reply-type=original
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Bobsnotch at aol.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 2:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> > In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> > catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>> >
>> > What it  does now is
>> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive  only with 
>> > a
>> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm  the 
>> > idle
>> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park  rises to
>> > 950.
>> >
>> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp  sensor
>> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so 
>> > much
>> .
>> > I
>> > have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
>> >
>> >
>> > The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
>> > because
>> > of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
>>
>>  Yes that I agree is normal .
>> >
>> > I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head 
>> > temp
>> > sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to 
>> > lean
>> > out
>> > the  mix. This might be what you're seeing.
>>
>>  I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't
>> help
>> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
>> dropped to 70 ohm  hot.
>>
>>  I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it 
>> does
>> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
>> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the 
>> head
>> temp sensor heats up that fast. I haven't gone to the extent of removing
>> the
>> sensor and heating it in oil to see at what temps it reads what ohm value

>> .
>> >From what 've read the reason the engine will not start with it 
>> >unplugged
>> is
>> because it causes an over rich condition it seems to indicate the ECU 
>> needs
>> to see resistance at all times. I just know it will not start or run with
>> it
>> unplugged. I have pots that I can dial in any where from 0 to 1 K ohm and
>> dial in 70 ohm to see what it does yet no way of reading actual head 
>> temp.
>> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all
>> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and 
>> T3's
>> .
>>
>>  Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not 
>> sure
>> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
>> >
>> > Bob 65 Notch  w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > URL:
>> > <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> attachments/20171209/4d1be43e/attachment.html>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:57:16 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <8A02408C6F494192AFA29DC3C56B4A96 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>         reply-type=response
>>
>> If I could call someone with this cell phone and have them listen to the
>> change with the sensor in and out of the system it would be impossible to
>> miss.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 11:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> > I think it's possible and even probable .
>> >
>> > There is just one detail I wanted to add. I just want to stress one
>> point.
>> > I don't recall if I brought this up about when I start the car cold 
>> > well
>> > before the ping thing . The AAR would be open , the idle would be set 
>> > at
>> > 950 , in a minute the idle would rise to 1500 RPM and once in reverse
>> drop
>> > back down . As soon as I placed it back in park it would hang at 1500 
>> > for
>> > a while. And not to dwell on the unplugged air temp sensor . I just 
>> > drove
>> > it today and last Thursday with the sensor un plugged and it no longer
>> > does this. From what I understand The AAR is only to allow air to 
>> > bypass
>> > the closed throttle plate and the MPS senses this adding more fuel . 
>> > It's
>> > not supposed to increase the RPM that much perhaps a bit yet not 550
>> RPM's
>> > higher than the set base idle . Since it rises so much it in fact
>> advances
>> > the timing which it will because of the RPM increase . What it does now
>> is
>> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a
>> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle
>> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
>> 950.
>> > About a year ago it would have the 1500 RPM right away and if I let it
>> > idle it would stay there for a good 15 to 20 minutes then drop to the 
>> > 950
>> > and begin the erratic miss.
>> >
>> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor
>> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much

>> > .
>> > I have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think . On the
>> other
>> > end and only by a few people on Samba I am told to adjust the MPS . My
>> > thinking is not to mess with the MPS I feel it just work as is . It 
>> > does
>> > not leak and the 2 readings 90 ohm and 350 ohms  are when they should 
>> > be
>> > and it's the proper one for my E system..
>> >
>> > I do agree with a long drive yet based just on what the sensor does and
>> > it's not just the idle that smooths out it runs better as I drive it.
>> Once
>> > I pulled the Dist that was sticking and installed the AH and timed it 
>> > it
>> > lost a bit of pickup that came back with the sensor unplugged. I 
>> > imagine
>> > there is some difference between the two distibutors advanc curve. Yet
>> > this did not fix the erratic miss that remained the same.
>> >
>> > Do I look for a vacuum leak?
>> >
>> > I am just trying to find out why this is. I'd rather run rich than lean
>> > for obvious reasons.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 5:10 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 9 Dec 2017 at 11:18, Dave Hall wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
>> >>> good
>> >>> drive.  Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
>> far
>> >>> at
>> >>> all.
>> >>> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in

>> >>> a
>> >>> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> 'soot'.
>> >>> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I'll second that. William has said he never gets the car above 45
>> >> mi/hr,
>> >> so let's see what a couple hours at 65-70 does.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *******************************
>> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> *******************************
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 19:55:33 -0500
>> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> <mailman.3731.1512867333.15231.type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
>> Square is highway miles.  Take it out, use it a bit at speed
>> alot could straighten itself out.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> 71 Squareback  "Hothe"
>> 65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
>> 93 RX7  "Redstur"
>> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
>> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of William J
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>  It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was 
>> 2006
>> except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some side
>> streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same
>> thing as fully warming it up .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> >I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a 
>> >good
>> > drive.  Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very 
>> > far
>> > at
>> > all.
>> > I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in a
>> > 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the 
>> > 'soot'.
>> > Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> > ===================
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> > On Behalf Of Jim Adney
>> > Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
>> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> > On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
>> >
>> > Content removed
>> >
>> > --
>> > *******************************
>> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> > *******************************
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:21:00 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <97E0766682E44E99BA2FAD5A4BCA5305 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>         reply-type=original
>>
>>  That may have to be on hold since the entire area around us and most
>> freeways are iffy since everything around here is on fire.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 4:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>>
>>
>> > These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
>> > Square is highway miles.  Take it out, use it a bit at speed
>> > alot could straighten itself out.
>> >
>> > Keith
>> >
>> >
>> > Topnotch Restorations
>> > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> > http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> > 71 Squareback  "Hothe"
>> > 65 Notchback  "El Baja Rojo"
>> > 93 RX7  "Redstur"
>> > 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> > On Behalf Of William J
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
>> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> > It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was
>> 2006
>> > except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some 
>> > side
>> > streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same
>> > thing as fully warming it up .
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >
>> >
>> >>I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a 
>> >>good
>> >> drive.  Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very 
>> >> far
>> >> at
>> >> all.
>> >> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in 
>> >> a
>> >> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the 
>> >> 'soot'.
>> >> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> >> ===================
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> >> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
>> >> Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >> On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Content removed
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *******************************
>> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> *******************************
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 20:58:18 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> Message-ID: <3dcb93.28c8db59.475deeba at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 8:30:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> phil.hof at ostronic.org writes:
>>
>> Lastly,  I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
>> different than the  early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum
>> leaks that
>> might cause at  least some of your symptoms.  If anyone has a good 
>> diagram
>> and discussion  of how the late PVC system works, we could set this right
>> and
>> eliminate  another variable.
>>
>> This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV 
>> system
>>  VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and causes a miss.
>> What  most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the guts of the valve,
>> and
>> add a  slug with a drilled hole in it (can't remember what size right off
>> hand) in the  vac hose to the plenum. What this does is allow you to tune
>> around the "constant  vacuum leak" of the small hole. I only mention 
>> this,
>> as
>> all of the type 4  engines (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, 
>> and
>> have issues with it. I  haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV
>> system
>> really works, but then  I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on 
>> carbs.
>> The rest of the type 3  engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real
>> PCV
>> set up.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch  w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> attachments/20171209/d94132cd/attachment.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 20:12:56 -0600
>> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> Message-ID: <5A2C9828.25597.3886425A at jadney.vwtype3.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> On 9 Dec 2017 at 20:58, Bobsnotch at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
>> > system VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and
>> > causes a miss. What  most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the
>> > guts of the valve, and add a  slug with a drilled hole in it (can't
>> > remember what size right off hand) in the  vac hose to the plenum. What
>> > this does is allow you to tune around the "constant  vacuum leak" of
>> > the small hole. I only mention this, as all of the type 4  engines
>> > (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, and have issues with it. I
>> > haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV system really works, but
>> > then  I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on carbs. The rest of
>> > the type 3  engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real PCV set
>> > up.
>>
>> All '72-3 FI Type 3s came with the 2 cap breather system. I've had 
>> several
>> of
>> them and they were all fine. No problems whatsoever. There's already a 
>> tiny
>> little pinhole where that air enters the IAD, so there's no way for this
>> to be
>> overwhelming.
>>
>> --
>> *******************************
>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> *******************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:16:15 -0800
>> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> Message-ID: <CFE3F08263CF46348EED4D272175B160 at acere355056e8b>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>>         reply-type=original
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil Hof" <phil.hof at ostronic.org>
>> To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>>
>>
>> > You answered my first thought, which is if the MPS leaks or not.  You
>> said
>> > no., so let?s table the MPS for now.
>> >
>> > Next, I wonder if your injector tip seals are bad.  This would allow 
>> > air
>> > in, causing leanness in any leaking cylinders (and perhaps pinging on
>> > that/those cylinders), but because it?s maybe only one of four, and so
>> far
>> > from the MPS, it may not tip off the MPS much to enrichen things, and
>> your
>> > ?pull the TS plug? enriches it enough to alleviate the pinging, those 
>> > it
>> > makes the other, non-leaking cylinders run rich.
>>
>>  The pinging stopped once I installed the other dist I rebuilt. I had 
>> this
>> same issue not the pinging that was new and vever happened before. In 
>> 2009
>> when this started I replaced the injector seals . It was the last thing I
>> did because I had to wait for them to arrive and I had high hopes yet new
>> ones didn't help . Before this began all I did was put the heat 
>> exchangers
>> back on instead of the J pipes. Changed all the fuel lines and filter .
>> adjusted the valves , changed the plugs which were Bosch that I had from 
>> 97
>> , oil change . This was when I joined Samba to see if anyone might know .

>> I
>> went as far as to check every single wire ECU umplugged and checked for
>> opens or shorts . I replaced vaccum lines nad the PVC hose . I've only 
>> put
>> a
>> little over 2 K miles on  it since . It always came down to unplugging 
>> that
>> sensor . I got another MPS that was never used and it was better. I
>> replaced
>> the plug wires and cap and rotor , gone over the valves twice in 2016 .
>> tightened every single FI connector and the FI to case grounds. . I 
>> thought
>> with all of this it would improve and at times it did yet never lasted
>> long.
>> Went through the charging system . Checked for voltage drops . The FI 
>> power
>> relay is the original as is the fuel pump relay . It's possible I suppose
>> the power relay contacts are not allowing full voltage to the ECU , that
>> was
>> next on my list . I never really had a reason to suspect it it did have
>> battery voltage at the ECU last I checked.
>> >
>> > Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
>> > different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum
>> > leaks that might cause at least some of your symptoms.  If anyone has a
>> > good diagram and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could
>> set
>> > this right and eliminate another variable.  Ot just scan the Samba
>> > classified and put in the older, simpler, PVC/breather system.
>>
>>  The PCV system seems to do it's job and to plug off the head ports and 
>> PCV
>> to IAD pipe wouldn't be that difficult . I only know of two breathers 
>> that
>> would work . One is the old draft tube and the other requires replacing 
>> the
>> oil filler tube and dip stick I think there's one that has one nipple on
>> the
>> one cap breather that connects to the oil bath yet don't know it that's 
>> the
>> entire venting or if it involves the tube down to the oil filler . I 
>> can't
>> find much info. If the PCV broke I'd have to figure something out . All 
>> it
>> needs is a way to vent case pressure without sucking up oil in the 
>> process
>> .
>> >
>> > -Phil
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:22:02 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <3dcd7e.6df83fd1.475df44a at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:30:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>>
>> I did  try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't
>> help
>> . It  starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
>> dropped  to 70 ohm  hot.
>>
>> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms  then it acted like it 
>> does
>> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in.  It's only a matter of 2
>> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins  I can't say if the 
>> head
>> temp sensor heats up that fast.
>> Seems all the  HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all
>> applications  even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and 
>> T3's
>> .
>>
>> Rays  theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not 
>> sure
>> if  this is general info or applies to type 4 .
>>
>> For your air temps, you should be have a reading of around 22-23K  when
>> cold. At 27K, your air temp should be around 30*F, which would be very 
>> cold
>> for So Cal-Hollywood. Your "hot" temp should be above 100 ohms, with it
>> "bottoming out" around 125 ohms or so. Anything below that just keeps
>> leaning
>> out the mixture. This is why I mentioned ballasting the HTS. If you're
>> wanting to err on the rich side, a 400 or even a 500 ohm resister is what
>> you'd
>> want to put in line with the HTS.
>> Yes, all of the new HTS's that are available now are the same build,  and
>> now are used on all air cooled VWs. It's not ideal, but they do kind of
>> work. What you really want to do is check the resistance range before
>> installing, as it might need ballast right out of the box. It's a real
>> shame  Denso
>> doesn't make a replacement of them, as the quality might be better (more
>> like the older Bosch units) than what's available today.
>>
>> What Ray's theory is that 70 is below the threshold is from studying  the
>> Bosch books, and working with D-jet (both in t-4 and t-3 )  applications.
>> There's info out there, but a majority is for the 914 (uses  the same
>> system
>> basically), as those owners WANT to keep the D-Jet FI working
>> correctly.Plus,
>> they have the cash to have specialized parts made to do so. I'm  not 
>> saying
>> VW people can't have the parts made, but rather most give up and go  to
>> carbs because it's easier to do so.Plus, they're not "concourse" type of
>> vehicles like Porsche or Mercedees people show at special events.
>>
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch  w/Factory Sunroof converted to  IRS
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> attachments/20171209/f925806a/attachment.html>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:24:38 -0500
>> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> Message-ID: <3dcdd0.494dbfb8.475df4e6 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:55:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> fisherfarms at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> My '69  FI/AT 1600 never seems to vary more than about 50 rpm?
>>
>> Yeah, but Mike your car gets tuned by Tram when it acts up. It's also 
>> got
>> the more "primitive" FI system, versus what William is dealing with.
>>
>> Bob 65 Notch  w/Factory Sunroof converted to  IRS
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> attachments/20171209/3002cc82/attachment.html>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
>> *************************************************
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
>
<http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/attachments/20171210/3
71ae8e9/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> 


_______________________________________________
VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org