[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
Mike Fisher
fisherfarms at gmail.com
Sun Dec 10 16:10:54 PST 2017
Tram told me to Always buy Premium gasoline.
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> OVer the years Ive had to significantly richen the mixture on my Square
> because of the modern gas, but yea... you really have to know what your
> doing to adjust the FI. With stepped heads and flat tops, I can run 87 in
> town but not on the highway in the warmer weather.
>
> Keith
>
>
> Topnotch Restorations
> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> On Behalf Of William J
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:01 PM
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
>
> There is no pure gasoline here. As far as I know it's all 10% Ethonal .
>
> I thought it was odd that it pinged all of a sudden ,one day it didn't and
> the next day it did. My first thought was the fuel and then the time it
> sits
>
> in the tank. I filled up on Aug 1st then it was summer blend then added 4
> gallons a few weeks back . It didn't ping right away and I really didn't
> count the days then I addded 3 gallons of 89 octane before I changed the
> Dist. It stopped pinging .
>
> The issue with the idle has been going on for years . Sometimes it seens
> to
>
> run fine and others not . It started this in 2009 . I wasn't paying
> attention to fuel yet if I recall the ethonal was only 6 % before 2009.
> It's
>
> next to impossible to find any info on the fuel sold .
>
> On FI you can't really tune around it . The only way is adjusting the MPS
> .
>
> People who run carbs re jet . The only way to know is everytime an engine
> begins to run bad you would need to have someone at a smog station check
> then you adjust what you can and pay to check it again.
>
> My opinion , they don't realy care about people with old cars there's not
> that many of them and even some fairly new cars 5 or 6 years old have
> engine
>
> issues with 10% with the fuel doing damage to the fuel system . I only know
> because of searching the internet. It's just like the engine oil that
> without additives can ruin flat tappet cams .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nigel East" <nigelgeast at gmail.com>
> To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
>
>
> > What fuel are you using, is it a methanol blend, If so I would suggest
> > trying it on Pure Gasoline and see if there is a difference, there is a
> > possibility the methanol is evaporating off and causing a difference in
> > the
> > initial fuel mixture that is causing the Ping. this would also account
> for
> > the differences in idle speed,
> > Regards
> > Nigel
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 5:24 AM, <
> > type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:
> >
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> >> When replying to the digest, please remember to trim your message.
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> >> :)
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> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
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> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
> >> 2. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
> >> 3. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
> >> 4. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (Keith Park)
> >> 5. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
> >> 6. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
> >> 7. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (Jim Adney)
> >> 8. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (William J)
> >> 9. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
> >> 10. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:44:28 -0500
> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID: <3db069.2312f6a4.475dc14c at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
> >>
> >> What it does now is
> >> start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with a
> >> short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the idle
> >> drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
> >> 950.
> >>
> >> I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor
> >> richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so much
> >> .
> >> I
> >> have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
> >>
> >>
> >> The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
> >> because
> >> of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
> >>
> >> I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head
> temp
> >> sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to lean
> >> out
> >> the mix. This might be what you're seeing.
> >>
> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
> >> attachments/20171209/4d1be43e/attachment.html>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:51:47 -0800
> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID: <94B8B479ED2948CCAEDFC1BDEDA58BD2 at acere355056e8b>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> >> reply-type=original
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <Bobsnotch at aol.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 2:44 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >>
> >>
> >> > In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> > catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
> >> >
> >> > What it does now is
> >> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with
> >> > a
> >> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the
> >> > idle
> >> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
> >> > 950.
> >> >
> >> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp
> sensor
> >> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so
> >> > much
> >> .
> >> > I
> >> > have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
> >> > because
> >> > of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
> >>
> >> Yes that I agree is normal .
> >> >
> >> > I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head
> >> > temp
> >> > sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to
> >> > lean
> >> > out
> >> > the mix. This might be what you're seeing.
> >>
> >> I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't
> >> help
> >> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
> >> dropped to 70 ohm hot.
> >>
> >> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it
> >> does
> >> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
> >> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the
> >> head
> >> temp sensor heats up that fast. I haven't gone to the extent of removing
> >> the
> >> sensor and heating it in oil to see at what temps it reads what ohm
> value
>
> >> .
> >> >From what 've read the reason the engine will not start with it
> >> >unplugged
> >> is
> >> because it causes an over rich condition it seems to indicate the ECU
> >> needs
> >> to see resistance at all times. I just know it will not start or run
> with
> >> it
> >> unplugged. I have pots that I can dial in any where from 0 to 1 K ohm
> and
> >> dial in 70 ohm to see what it does yet no way of reading actual head
> >> temp.
> >> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover all
> >> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and
> >> T3's
> >> .
> >>
> >> Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not
> >> sure
> >> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
> >> >
> >> > Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
> >> > -------------- next part --------------
> >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> > URL:
> >> > <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
> >> attachments/20171209/4d1be43e/attachment.html>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:57:16 -0800
> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID: <8A02408C6F494192AFA29DC3C56B4A96 at acere355056e8b>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> >> reply-type=response
> >>
> >> If I could call someone with this cell phone and have them listen to the
> >> change with the sensor in and out of the system it would be impossible
> to
> >> miss.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 11:28 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >>
> >>
> >> > I think it's possible and even probable .
> >> >
> >> > There is just one detail I wanted to add. I just want to stress one
> >> point.
> >> > I don't recall if I brought this up about when I start the car cold
> >> > well
> >> > before the ping thing . The AAR would be open , the idle would be set
> >> > at
> >> > 950 , in a minute the idle would rise to 1500 RPM and once in reverse
> >> drop
> >> > back down . As soon as I placed it back in park it would hang at 1500
> >> > for
> >> > a while. And not to dwell on the unplugged air temp sensor . I just
> >> > drove
> >> > it today and last Thursday with the sensor un plugged and it no longer
> >> > does this. From what I understand The AAR is only to allow air to
> >> > bypass
> >> > the closed throttle plate and the MPS senses this adding more fuel .
> >> > It's
> >> > not supposed to increase the RPM that much perhaps a bit yet not 550
> >> RPM's
> >> > higher than the set base idle . Since it rises so much it in fact
> >> advances
> >> > the timing which it will because of the RPM increase . What it does
> now
> >> is
> >> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with
> a
> >> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the
> idle
> >> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
> >> 950.
> >> > About a year ago it would have the 1500 RPM right away and if I let it
> >> > idle it would stay there for a good 15 to 20 minutes then drop to the
> >> > 950
> >> > and begin the erratic miss.
> >> >
> >> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp sensor
> >> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so
> much
>
> >> > .
> >> > I have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think . On the
> >> other
> >> > end and only by a few people on Samba I am told to adjust the MPS . My
> >> > thinking is not to mess with the MPS I feel it just work as is . It
> >> > does
> >> > not leak and the 2 readings 90 ohm and 350 ohms are when they should
> >> > be
> >> > and it's the proper one for my E system..
> >> >
> >> > I do agree with a long drive yet based just on what the sensor does
> and
> >> > it's not just the idle that smooths out it runs better as I drive it.
> >> Once
> >> > I pulled the Dist that was sticking and installed the AH and timed it
> >> > it
> >> > lost a bit of pickup that came back with the sensor unplugged. I
> >> > imagine
> >> > there is some difference between the two distibutors advanc curve. Yet
> >> > this did not fix the erratic miss that remained the same.
> >> >
> >> > Do I look for a vacuum leak?
> >> >
> >> > I am just trying to find out why this is. I'd rather run rich than
> lean
> >> > for obvious reasons.
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> >> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 5:10 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On 9 Dec 2017 at 11:18, Dave Hall wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
> >> >>> good
> >> >>> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
> >> far
> >> >>> at
> >> >>> all.
> >> >>> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive
> in
>
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
> >> 'soot'.
> >> >>> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, I'll second that. William has said he never gets the car above
> 45
> >> >> mi/hr,
> >> >> so let's see what a couple hours at 65-70 does.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> *******************************
> >> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> >> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> >> *******************************
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 19:55:33 -0500
> >> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID:
> >>
> >> <mailman.3731.1512867333.15231.type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
> >> >
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
> >> Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed
> >> alot could straighten itself out.
> >>
> >> Keith
> >>
> >>
> >> Topnotch Restorations
> >> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
> >> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
> >> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
> >> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
> >> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
> >> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
> >> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> >> On Behalf Of William J
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >>
> >> It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was
> >> 2006
> >> except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some side
> >> streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the same
> >> thing as fully warming it up .
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >>
> >>
> >> >I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
> >> >good
> >> > drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
> >> > far
> >> > at
> >> > all.
> >> > I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in
> a
> >> > 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
> >> > 'soot'.
> >> > Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> > UK VW Type 3&4 Club
> >> > ===================
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> >> > On Behalf Of Jim Adney
> >> > Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
> >> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> >
> >> > On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Content removed
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *******************************
> >> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> >> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> > *******************************
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:21:00 -0800
> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID: <97E0766682E44E99BA2FAD5A4BCA5305 at acere355056e8b>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> >> reply-type=original
> >>
> >> That may have to be on hold since the entire area around us and most
> >> freeways are iffy since everything around here is on fire.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 4:55 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >>
> >>
> >> > These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
> >> > Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed
> >> > alot could straighten itself out.
> >> >
> >> > Keith
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Topnotch Restorations
> >> > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
> >> > http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
> >> > 71 Squareback "Hothe"
> >> > 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
> >> > 93 RX7 "Redstur"
> >> > 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> >> > On Behalf Of William J
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
> >> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> >
> >> > It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was
> >> 2006
> >> > except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some
> >> > side
> >> > streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the
> same
> >> > thing as fully warming it up .
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
> >> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
> >> >>good
> >> >> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
> >> >> far
> >> >> at
> >> >> all.
> >> >> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive in
> >> >> a
> >> >> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
> >> >> 'soot'.
> >> >> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
> >> >>
> >> >> Dave
> >> >> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
> >> >> ===================
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: type3-vwtype3.org
> >> >> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
> >> >> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
> >> >> Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
> >> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> >>
> >> >> On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Content removed
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> *******************************
> >> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> >> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> >> *******************************
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---
> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 20:58:18 -0500
> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
> >> Message-ID: <3dcb93.28c8db59.475deeba at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 8:30:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> phil.hof at ostronic.org writes:
> >>
> >> Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
> >> different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause vacuum
> >> leaks that
> >> might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has a good
> >> diagram
> >> and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could set this
> right
> >> and
> >> eliminate another variable.
> >>
> >> This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
> >> system
> >> VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and causes a
> miss.
> >> What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the guts of the valve,
> >> and
> >> add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't remember what size right
> off
> >> hand) in the vac hose to the plenum. What this does is allow you to
> tune
> >> around the "constant vacuum leak" of the small hole. I only mention
> >> this,
> >> as
> >> all of the type 4 engines (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up,
> >> and
> >> have issues with it. I haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV
> >> system
> >> really works, but then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on
> >> carbs.
> >> The rest of the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no
> real
> >> PCV
> >> set up.
> >>
> >> I hope this helps.
> >>
> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
> >> attachments/20171209/d94132cd/attachment.html>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 20:12:56 -0600
> >> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
> >> Message-ID: <5A2C9828.25597.3886425A at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >>
> >> On 9 Dec 2017 at 20:58, Bobsnotch at aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
> >> > system VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and
> >> > causes a miss. What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the
> >> > guts of the valve, and add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't
> >> > remember what size right off hand) in the vac hose to the plenum.
> What
> >> > this does is allow you to tune around the "constant vacuum leak" of
> >> > the small hole. I only mention this, as all of the type 4 engines
> >> > (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, and have issues with it. I
> >> > haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV system really works,
> but
> >> > then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on carbs. The rest of
> >> > the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real PCV set
> >> > up.
> >>
> >> All '72-3 FI Type 3s came with the 2 cap breather system. I've had
> >> several
> >> of
> >> them and they were all fine. No problems whatsoever. There's already a
> >> tiny
> >> little pinhole where that air enters the IAD, so there's no way for this
> >> to be
> >> overwhelming.
> >>
> >> --
> >> *******************************
> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> *******************************
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:16:15 -0800
> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
> >> Message-ID: <CFE3F08263CF46348EED4D272175B160 at acere355056e8b>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> >> reply-type=original
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Phil Hof" <phil.hof at ostronic.org>
> >> To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:43 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
> >>
> >>
> >> > You answered my first thought, which is if the MPS leaks or not. You
> >> said
> >> > no., so let?s table the MPS for now.
> >> >
> >> > Next, I wonder if your injector tip seals are bad. This would allow
> >> > air
> >> > in, causing leanness in any leaking cylinders (and perhaps pinging on
> >> > that/those cylinders), but because it?s maybe only one of four, and so
> >> far
> >> > from the MPS, it may not tip off the MPS much to enrichen things, and
> >> your
> >> > ?pull the TS plug? enriches it enough to alleviate the pinging, those
> >> > it
> >> > makes the other, non-leaking cylinders run rich.
> >>
> >> The pinging stopped once I installed the other dist I rebuilt. I had
> >> this
> >> same issue not the pinging that was new and vever happened before. In
> >> 2009
> >> when this started I replaced the injector seals . It was the last thing
> I
> >> did because I had to wait for them to arrive and I had high hopes yet
> new
> >> ones didn't help . Before this began all I did was put the heat
> >> exchangers
> >> back on instead of the J pipes. Changed all the fuel lines and filter .
> >> adjusted the valves , changed the plugs which were Bosch that I had from
> >> 97
> >> , oil change . This was when I joined Samba to see if anyone might know
> .
>
> >> I
> >> went as far as to check every single wire ECU umplugged and checked for
> >> opens or shorts . I replaced vaccum lines nad the PVC hose . I've only
> >> put
> >> a
> >> little over 2 K miles on it since . It always came down to unplugging
> >> that
> >> sensor . I got another MPS that was never used and it was better. I
> >> replaced
> >> the plug wires and cap and rotor , gone over the valves twice in 2016 .
> >> tightened every single FI connector and the FI to case grounds. . I
> >> thought
> >> with all of this it would improve and at times it did yet never lasted
> >> long.
> >> Went through the charging system . Checked for voltage drops . The FI
> >> power
> >> relay is the original as is the fuel pump relay . It's possible I
> suppose
> >> the power relay contacts are not allowing full voltage to the ECU , that
> >> was
> >> next on my list . I never really had a reason to suspect it it did have
> >> battery voltage at the ECU last I checked.
> >> >
> >> > Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
> >> > different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause
> vacuum
> >> > leaks that might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has
> a
> >> > good diagram and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could
> >> set
> >> > this right and eliminate another variable. Ot just scan the Samba
> >> > classified and put in the older, simpler, PVC/breather system.
> >>
> >> The PCV system seems to do it's job and to plug off the head ports and
> >> PCV
> >> to IAD pipe wouldn't be that difficult . I only know of two breathers
> >> that
> >> would work . One is the old draft tube and the other requires replacing
> >> the
> >> oil filler tube and dip stick I think there's one that has one nipple on
> >> the
> >> one cap breather that connects to the oil bath yet don't know it that's
> >> the
> >> entire venting or if it involves the tube down to the oil filler . I
> >> can't
> >> find much info. If the PCV broke I'd have to figure something out . All
> >> it
> >> needs is a way to vent case pressure without sucking up oil in the
> >> process
> >> .
> >> >
> >> > -Phil
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:22:02 -0500
> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID: <3dcd7e.6df83fd1.475df44a at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:30:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
> >>
> >> I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it didn't
> >> help
> >> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
> >> dropped to 70 ohm hot.
> >>
> >> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it
> >> does
> >> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
> >> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the
> >> head
> >> temp sensor heats up that fast.
> >> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover
> all
> >> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and
> >> T3's
> >> .
> >>
> >> Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not
> >> sure
> >> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
> >>
> >> For your air temps, you should be have a reading of around 22-23K when
> >> cold. At 27K, your air temp should be around 30*F, which would be very
> >> cold
> >> for So Cal-Hollywood. Your "hot" temp should be above 100 ohms, with it
> >> "bottoming out" around 125 ohms or so. Anything below that just keeps
> >> leaning
> >> out the mixture. This is why I mentioned ballasting the HTS. If you're
> >> wanting to err on the rich side, a 400 or even a 500 ohm resister is
> what
> >> you'd
> >> want to put in line with the HTS.
> >> Yes, all of the new HTS's that are available now are the same build,
> and
> >> now are used on all air cooled VWs. It's not ideal, but they do kind of
> >> work. What you really want to do is check the resistance range before
> >> installing, as it might need ballast right out of the box. It's a real
> >> shame Denso
> >> doesn't make a replacement of them, as the quality might be better (more
> >> like the older Bosch units) than what's available today.
> >>
> >> What Ray's theory is that 70 is below the threshold is from studying
> the
> >> Bosch books, and working with D-jet (both in t-4 and t-3 )
> applications.
> >> There's info out there, but a majority is for the 914 (uses the same
> >> system
> >> basically), as those owners WANT to keep the D-Jet FI working
> >> correctly.Plus,
> >> they have the cash to have specialized parts made to do so. I'm not
> >> saying
> >> VW people can't have the parts made, but rather most give up and go to
> >> carbs because it's easier to do so.Plus, they're not "concourse" type of
> >> vehicles like Porsche or Mercedees people show at special events.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:24:38 -0500
> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
> >> Message-ID: <3dcdd0.494dbfb8.475df4e6 at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:55:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> fisherfarms at gmail.com writes:
> >>
> >> My '69 FI/AT 1600 never seems to vary more than about 50 rpm?
> >>
> >> Yeah, but Mike your car gets tuned by Tram when it acts up. It's also
> >> got
> >> the more "primitive" FI system, versus what William is dealing with.
> >>
> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
> >> *************************************************
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http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
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