[T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
William J
catnine09 at dslextreme.com
Sun Dec 10 16:27:14 PST 2017
Mine has stepped heads and flat tops the 73 FI auto trans . I was only on
the freeway once in 2015 and with 87 it ran fine . It was not a hot day yet
at least 80 and what ever the heat produced from all the traffic water
cooled radiators and cement surface. Last I drove freeways 6 days a week in
2006 on 87 yet the ethonal was maybe 5 % then . I put 89 in it a few times
this year . yet this was all street driving I didn't notice anything .
I don't have access to a sniffer so playing with MAP adjustments is not
something I care to try.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Fisher" <fisherfarms at gmail.com>
To: "T3 List" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
> Tram told me to Always buy Premium gasoline.
>
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Keith Park <topnotch at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> OVer the years Ive had to significantly richen the mixture on my Square
>> because of the modern gas, but yea... you really have to know what your
>> doing to adjust the FI. With stepped heads and flat tops, I can run 87
>> in
>> town but not on the highway in the warmer weather.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Topnotch Restorations
>> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
>> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
>> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
>> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> On Behalf Of William J
>> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:01 PM
>> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
>>
>> There is no pure gasoline here. As far as I know it's all 10% Ethonal .
>>
>> I thought it was odd that it pinged all of a sudden ,one day it didn't
>> and
>> the next day it did. My first thought was the fuel and then the time it
>> sits
>>
>> in the tank. I filled up on Aug 1st then it was summer blend then added 4
>> gallons a few weeks back . It didn't ping right away and I really didn't
>> count the days then I addded 3 gallons of 89 octane before I changed the
>> Dist. It stopped pinging .
>>
>> The issue with the idle has been going on for years . Sometimes it seens
>> to
>>
>> run fine and others not . It started this in 2009 . I wasn't paying
>> attention to fuel yet if I recall the ethonal was only 6 % before 2009.
>> It's
>>
>> next to impossible to find any info on the fuel sold .
>>
>> On FI you can't really tune around it . The only way is adjusting the
>> MPS
>> .
>>
>> People who run carbs re jet . The only way to know is everytime an engine
>> begins to run bad you would need to have someone at a smog station check
>> then you adjust what you can and pay to check it again.
>>
>> My opinion , they don't realy care about people with old cars there's
>> not
>> that many of them and even some fairly new cars 5 or 6 years old have
>> engine
>>
>> issues with 10% with the fuel doing damage to the fuel system . I only
>> know
>> because of searching the internet. It's just like the engine oil that
>> without additives can ruin flat tappet cams .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nigel East" <nigelgeast at gmail.com>
>> To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 9:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [T3] type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
>>
>>
>> > What fuel are you using, is it a methanol blend, If so I would suggest
>> > trying it on Pure Gasoline and see if there is a difference, there is a
>> > possibility the methanol is evaporating off and causing a difference in
>> > the
>> > initial fuel mixture that is causing the Ping. this would also account
>> for
>> > the differences in idle speed,
>> > Regards
>> > Nigel
>> >
>> > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 5:24 AM, <
>> > type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Send type3-vwtype3.org mailing list submissions to
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>> >> ***********************************
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>> >> :)
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
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>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> >> 2. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>> >> 3. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>> >> 4. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (Keith
>> >> Park)
>> >> 5. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging . (William J)
>> >> 6. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> >> 7. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (Jim Adney)
>> >> 8. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging (William J)
>> >> 9. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> >> 10. Re: On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> (Bobsnotch at aol.com)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:44:28 -0500
>> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID: <3db069.2312f6a4.475dc14c at aol.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> >> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>> >>
>> >> What it does now is
>> >> start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only with
>> >> a
>> >> short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the
>> >> idle
>> >> drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises to
>> >> 950.
>> >>
>> >> I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp
>> >> sensor
>> >> richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so
>> >> much
>> >> .
>> >> I
>> >> have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
>> >> because
>> >> of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
>> >>
>> >> I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head
>> temp
>> >> sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to
>> >> lean
>> >> out
>> >> the mix. This might be what you're seeing.
>> >>
>> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> >> attachments/20171209/4d1be43e/attachment.html>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 2
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:51:47 -0800
>> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID: <94B8B479ED2948CCAEDFC1BDEDA58BD2 at acere355056e8b>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> >> reply-type=original
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: <Bobsnotch at aol.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 2:44 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > In a message dated 12/9/2017 2:28:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> >> > catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>> >> >
>> >> > What it does now is
>> >> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only
>> >> > with
>> >> > a
>> >> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the
>> >> > idle
>> >> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises
>> >> > to
>> >> > 950.
>> >> >
>> >> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp
>> sensor
>> >> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so
>> >> > much
>> >> .
>> >> > I
>> >> > have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The 100 rpm drop from park/neutral is normal for an AT car. This is
>> >> > because
>> >> > of the torque converter loading up to move the vehicle.
>> >>
>> >> Yes that I agree is normal .
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm beginning to think that maybe you might need to ballast the head
>> >> > temp
>> >> > sensor. If it drops too low in resistance, the ECU will continue to
>> >> > lean
>> >> > out
>> >> > the mix. This might be what you're seeing.
>> >>
>> >> I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it
>> >> didn't
>> >> help
>> >> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
>> >> dropped to 70 ohm hot.
>> >>
>> >> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it
>> >> does
>> >> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
>> >> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the
>> >> head
>> >> temp sensor heats up that fast. I haven't gone to the extent of
>> >> removing
>> >> the
>> >> sensor and heating it in oil to see at what temps it reads what ohm
>> value
>>
>> >> .
>> >> >From what 've read the reason the engine will not start with it
>> >> >unplugged
>> >> is
>> >> because it causes an over rich condition it seems to indicate the ECU
>> >> needs
>> >> to see resistance at all times. I just know it will not start or run
>> with
>> >> it
>> >> unplugged. I have pots that I can dial in any where from 0 to 1 K ohm
>> and
>> >> dial in 70 ohm to see what it does yet no way of reading actual head
>> >> temp.
>> >> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover
>> >> all
>> >> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and
>> >> T3's
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >> Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not
>> >> sure
>> >> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
>> >> >
>> >> > Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> >> > -------------- next part --------------
>> >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> > URL:
>> >> > <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> >> attachments/20171209/4d1be43e/attachment.html>
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 3
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 15:57:16 -0800
>> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID: <8A02408C6F494192AFA29DC3C56B4A96 at acere355056e8b>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> >> reply-type=response
>> >>
>> >> If I could call someone with this cell phone and have them listen to
>> >> the
>> >> change with the sensor in and out of the system it would be impossible
>> to
>> >> miss.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 11:28 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > I think it's possible and even probable .
>> >> >
>> >> > There is just one detail I wanted to add. I just want to stress one
>> >> point.
>> >> > I don't recall if I brought this up about when I start the car cold
>> >> > well
>> >> > before the ping thing . The AAR would be open , the idle would be
>> >> > set
>> >> > at
>> >> > 950 , in a minute the idle would rise to 1500 RPM and once in
>> >> > reverse
>> >> drop
>> >> > back down . As soon as I placed it back in park it would hang at
>> >> > 1500
>> >> > for
>> >> > a while. And not to dwell on the unplugged air temp sensor . I just
>> >> > drove
>> >> > it today and last Thursday with the sensor un plugged and it no
>> >> > longer
>> >> > does this. From what I understand The AAR is only to allow air to
>> >> > bypass
>> >> > the closed throttle plate and the MPS senses this adding more fuel .
>> >> > It's
>> >> > not supposed to increase the RPM that much perhaps a bit yet not 550
>> >> RPM's
>> >> > higher than the set base idle . Since it rises so much it in fact
>> >> advances
>> >> > the timing which it will because of the RPM increase . What it does
>> now
>> >> is
>> >> > start and run at 950 and basically holds that even in drive only
>> >> > with
>> a
>> >> > short drop when I shift it into drive or reverse and once warm the
>> idle
>> >> > drops to 850 and seems to remain there in drive then in park rises
>> >> > to
>> >> 950.
>> >> > About a year ago it would have the 1500 RPM right away and if I let
>> >> > it
>> >> > idle it would stay there for a good 15 to 20 minutes then drop to
>> >> > the
>> >> > 950
>> >> > and begin the erratic miss.
>> >> >
>> >> > I only bring this up not to debate what percentage the air temp
>> >> > sensor
>> >> > richens the mix only because doing this changes the way it runs so
>> much
>>
>> >> > .
>> >> > I have read this was an old techs trick on Rennlist I think . On the
>> >> other
>> >> > end and only by a few people on Samba I am told to adjust the MPS .
>> >> > My
>> >> > thinking is not to mess with the MPS I feel it just work as is . It
>> >> > does
>> >> > not leak and the 2 readings 90 ohm and 350 ohms are when they
>> >> > should
>> >> > be
>> >> > and it's the proper one for my E system..
>> >> >
>> >> > I do agree with a long drive yet based just on what the sensor does
>> and
>> >> > it's not just the idle that smooths out it runs better as I drive
>> >> > it.
>> >> Once
>> >> > I pulled the Dist that was sticking and installed the AH and timed
>> >> > it
>> >> > it
>> >> > lost a bit of pickup that came back with the sensor unplugged. I
>> >> > imagine
>> >> > there is some difference between the two distibutors advanc curve.
>> >> > Yet
>> >> > this did not fix the erratic miss that remained the same.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do I look for a vacuum leak?
>> >> >
>> >> > I am just trying to find out why this is. I'd rather run rich than
>> lean
>> >> > for obvious reasons.
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> >> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 5:10 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 9 Dec 2017 at 11:18, Dave Hall wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> good
>> >> >>> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven
>> >> >>> very
>> >> far
>> >> >>> at
>> >> >>> all.
>> >> >>> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive
>> in
>>
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> >> 'soot'.
>> >> >>> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, I'll second that. William has said he never gets the car above
>> 45
>> >> >> mi/hr,
>> >> >> so let's see what a couple hours at 65-70 does.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> *******************************
>> >> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> >> *******************************
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---
>> >> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 4
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 19:55:33 -0500
>> >> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>
>> >> <mailman.3731.1512867333.15231.type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
>> >> Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed
>> >> alot could straighten itself out.
>> >>
>> >> Keith
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Topnotch Restorations
>> >> topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> >> http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> >> 71 Squareback "Hothe"
>> >> 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
>> >> 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>> >> 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
>> >> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> >> On Behalf Of William J
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >> It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH was
>> >> 2006
>> >> except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some
>> >> side
>> >> streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the
>> >> same
>> >> thing as fully warming it up .
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
>> >> >good
>> >> > drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven very
>> >> > far
>> >> > at
>> >> > all.
>> >> > I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive
>> >> > in
>> a
>> >> > 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> >> > 'soot'.
>> >> > Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave
>> >> > UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> >> > ===================
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> >> > On Behalf Of Jim Adney
>> >> > Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
>> >> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> >
>> >> > On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Content removed
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > *******************************
>> >> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> > *******************************
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---
>> >> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 5
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 17:21:00 -0800
>> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID: <97E0766682E44E99BA2FAD5A4BCA5305 at acere355056e8b>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> >> reply-type=original
>> >>
>> >> That may have to be on hold since the entire area around us and most
>> >> freeways are iffy since everything around here is on fire.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Keith Park" <topnotch at nycap.rr.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 4:55 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > These cars LOVE highway miles, about 85% of the 160K on my
>> >> > Square is highway miles. Take it out, use it a bit at speed
>> >> > alot could straighten itself out.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keith
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Topnotch Restorations
>> >> > topnotch at nycap.rr.com
>> >> > http://www.a383ina68.addr.com/radiorest/main.htm
>> >> > 71 Squareback "Hothe"
>> >> > 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo"
>> >> > 93 RX7 "Redstur"
>> >> > 95 Chrysler Cirrus Lxi "Cirstallsalot"
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> >> > On Behalf Of William J
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 1:37 PM
>> >> > To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> >
>> >> > It's certainly possible . Last time I drove it faster than 45 MPH
>> >> > was
>> >> 2006
>> >> > except one freeway drive in 2015 . I do step on it on main and some
>> >> > side
>> >> > streets and keep the auto trans in 2nd gear which is not quite the
>> same
>> >> > thing as fully warming it up .
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Dave Hall" <dave at hallvw.clara.co.uk>
>> >> > To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 3:18 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>I wonder if all this is the car's way of asking you to take it for a
>> >> >>good
>> >> >> drive. Unless I'm mixing up two listees, this car isn't driven
>> >> >> very
>> >> >> far
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> all.
>> >> >> I've certainly heard of VW dealers resorting to a good brisk drive
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> 'grumbling' car that does minimal mileage, just to clear out the
>> >> >> 'soot'.
>> >> >> Now the advance is working better, maybe that's worth trying?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dave
>> >> >> UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>> >> >> ===================
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> >> [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-bounces at lists.vwtype3.org]
>> >> >> On Behalf Of Jim Adney
>> >> >> Sent: 09 December 2017 04:35
>> >> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 8 Dec 2017 at 15:13, William J wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Content removed
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> *******************************
>> >> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> >> *******************************
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>> >> >> software.
>> >> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 6
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 20:58:18 -0500
>> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> >> Message-ID: <3dcb93.28c8db59.475deeba at aol.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 8:30:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> >> phil.hof at ostronic.org writes:
>> >>
>> >> Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
>> >> different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause
>> >> vacuum
>> >> leaks that
>> >> might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone has a good
>> >> diagram
>> >> and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we could set this
>> right
>> >> and
>> >> eliminate another variable.
>> >>
>> >> This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
>> >> system
>> >> VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and causes a
>> miss.
>> >> What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the guts of the
>> >> valve,
>> >> and
>> >> add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't remember what size right
>> off
>> >> hand) in the vac hose to the plenum. What this does is allow you to
>> tune
>> >> around the "constant vacuum leak" of the small hole. I only mention
>> >> this,
>> >> as
>> >> all of the type 4 engines (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up,
>> >> and
>> >> have issues with it. I haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV
>> >> system
>> >> really works, but then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on
>> >> carbs.
>> >> The rest of the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no
>> real
>> >> PCV
>> >> set up.
>> >>
>> >> I hope this helps.
>> >>
>> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> >> attachments/20171209/d94132cd/attachment.html>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 7
>> >> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 20:12:56 -0600
>> >> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> >> Message-ID: <5A2C9828.25597.3886425A at jadney.vwtype3.org>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> >>
>> >> On 9 Dec 2017 at 20:58, Bobsnotch at aol.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > This is the 1 thing that Ray really doesn't like about the 2 cap PCV
>> >> > system VW used. It has a bad tendency to open when it wants, and
>> >> > causes a miss. What most of the type 4 guys do, is to strip out the
>> >> > guts of the valve, and add a slug with a drilled hole in it (can't
>> >> > remember what size right off hand) in the vac hose to the plenum.
>> What
>> >> > this does is allow you to tune around the "constant vacuum leak" of
>> >> > the small hole. I only mention this, as all of the type 4 engines
>> >> > (bus, T-4, 914) use that same valve set up, and have issues with it.
>> >> > I
>> >> > haven't really studied how the VW designed PCV system really works,
>> but
>> >> > then I've only got 1 t-4 engine here, and it's on carbs. The rest
>> >> > of
>> >> > the type 3 engines are all 1 cap breather models, so no real PCV
>> >> > set
>> >> > up.
>> >>
>> >> All '72-3 FI Type 3s came with the 2 cap breather system. I've had
>> >> several
>> >> of
>> >> them and they were all fine. No problems whatsoever. There's already a
>> >> tiny
>> >> little pinhole where that air enters the IAD, so there's no way for
>> >> this
>> >> to be
>> >> overwhelming.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *******************************
>> >> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> >> *******************************
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 8
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:16:15 -0800
>> >> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
>> >> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> >> Message-ID: <CFE3F08263CF46348EED4D272175B160 at acere355056e8b>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>> >> reply-type=original
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Phil Hof" <phil.hof at ostronic.org>
>> >> To: <type3-vwtype3.org at lists.vwtype3.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:43 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected auto trans pinging
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > You answered my first thought, which is if the MPS leaks or not.
>> >> > You
>> >> said
>> >> > no., so let?s table the MPS for now.
>> >> >
>> >> > Next, I wonder if your injector tip seals are bad. This would allow
>> >> > air
>> >> > in, causing leanness in any leaking cylinders (and perhaps pinging
>> >> > on
>> >> > that/those cylinders), but because it?s maybe only one of four, and
>> >> > so
>> >> far
>> >> > from the MPS, it may not tip off the MPS much to enrichen things,
>> >> > and
>> >> your
>> >> > ?pull the TS plug? enriches it enough to alleviate the pinging,
>> >> > those
>> >> > it
>> >> > makes the other, non-leaking cylinders run rich.
>> >>
>> >> The pinging stopped once I installed the other dist I rebuilt. I had
>> >> this
>> >> same issue not the pinging that was new and vever happened before. In
>> >> 2009
>> >> when this started I replaced the injector seals . It was the last
>> >> thing
>> I
>> >> did because I had to wait for them to arrive and I had high hopes yet
>> new
>> >> ones didn't help . Before this began all I did was put the heat
>> >> exchangers
>> >> back on instead of the J pipes. Changed all the fuel lines and filter
>> >> .
>> >> adjusted the valves , changed the plugs which were Bosch that I had
>> >> from
>> >> 97
>> >> , oil change . This was when I joined Samba to see if anyone might
>> >> know
>> .
>>
>> >> I
>> >> went as far as to check every single wire ECU umplugged and checked
>> >> for
>> >> opens or shorts . I replaced vaccum lines nad the PVC hose . I've only
>> >> put
>> >> a
>> >> little over 2 K miles on it since . It always came down to unplugging
>> >> that
>> >> sensor . I got another MPS that was never used and it was better. I
>> >> replaced
>> >> the plug wires and cap and rotor , gone over the valves twice in 2016
>> >> .
>> >> tightened every single FI connector and the FI to case grounds. . I
>> >> thought
>> >> with all of this it would improve and at times it did yet never lasted
>> >> long.
>> >> Went through the charging system . Checked for voltage drops . The FI
>> >> power
>> >> relay is the original as is the fuel pump relay . It's possible I
>> suppose
>> >> the power relay contacts are not allowing full voltage to the ECU ,
>> >> that
>> >> was
>> >> next on my list . I never really had a reason to suspect it it did
>> >> have
>> >> battery voltage at the ECU last I checked.
>> >> >
>> >> > Lastly, I?ve said this before, but the late model breather/PVC is
>> >> > different than the early style, and I hear that faults can cause
>> vacuum
>> >> > leaks that might cause at least some of your symptoms. If anyone
>> >> > has
>> a
>> >> > good diagram and discussion of how the late PVC system works, we
>> >> > could
>> >> set
>> >> > this right and eliminate another variable. Ot just scan the Samba
>> >> > classified and put in the older, simpler, PVC/breather system.
>> >>
>> >> The PCV system seems to do it's job and to plug off the head ports
>> >> and
>> >> PCV
>> >> to IAD pipe wouldn't be that difficult . I only know of two breathers
>> >> that
>> >> would work . One is the old draft tube and the other requires
>> >> replacing
>> >> the
>> >> oil filler tube and dip stick I think there's one that has one nipple
>> >> on
>> >> the
>> >> one cap breather that connects to the oil bath yet don't know it
>> >> that's
>> >> the
>> >> entire venting or if it involves the tube down to the oil filler . I
>> >> can't
>> >> find much info. If the PCV broke I'd have to figure something out .
>> >> All
>> >> it
>> >> needs is a way to vent case pressure without sucking up oil in the
>> >> process
>> >> .
>> >> >
>> >> > -Phil
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 9
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:22:02 -0500
>> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID: <3dcd7e.6df83fd1.475df44a at aol.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:30:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> >> catnine09 at dslextreme.com writes:
>> >>
>> >> I did try a 250 ohm resistor a few times yet for some reason it
>> >> didn't
>> >> help
>> >> . It starts out at 27K ohms cold and last I checked , been a while it
>> >> dropped to 70 ohm hot.
>> >>
>> >> I didn't see a change until I had over 500 ohms then it acted like it
>> >> does
>> >> now only with the air temp sensor plugged in. It's only a matter of 2
>> >> minutes from a cold engine when the missing begins I can't say if the
>> >> head
>> >> temp sensor heats up that fast.
>> >> Seems all the HTS now are the same part number and are used to cover
>> all
>> >> applications even though there were different ones for bus and T4 and
>> >> T3's
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >> Rays theory is 70 ohm is below the window of the ECU to read. I'm not
>> >> sure
>> >> if this is general info or applies to type 4 .
>> >>
>> >> For your air temps, you should be have a reading of around 22-23K
>> >> when
>> >> cold. At 27K, your air temp should be around 30*F, which would be very
>> >> cold
>> >> for So Cal-Hollywood. Your "hot" temp should be above 100 ohms, with
>> >> it
>> >> "bottoming out" around 125 ohms or so. Anything below that just keeps
>> >> leaning
>> >> out the mixture. This is why I mentioned ballasting the HTS. If you're
>> >> wanting to err on the rich side, a 400 or even a 500 ohm resister is
>> what
>> >> you'd
>> >> want to put in line with the HTS.
>> >> Yes, all of the new HTS's that are available now are the same build,
>> and
>> >> now are used on all air cooled VWs. It's not ideal, but they do kind
>> >> of
>> >> work. What you really want to do is check the resistance range before
>> >> installing, as it might need ballast right out of the box. It's a real
>> >> shame Denso
>> >> doesn't make a replacement of them, as the quality might be better
>> >> (more
>> >> like the older Bosch units) than what's available today.
>> >>
>> >> What Ray's theory is that 70 is below the threshold is from studying
>> the
>> >> Bosch books, and working with D-jet (both in t-4 and t-3 )
>> applications.
>> >> There's info out there, but a majority is for the 914 (uses the same
>> >> system
>> >> basically), as those owners WANT to keep the D-Jet FI working
>> >> correctly.Plus,
>> >> they have the cash to have specialized parts made to do so. I'm not
>> >> saying
>> >> VW people can't have the parts made, but rather most give up and go
>> >> to
>> >> carbs because it's easier to do so.Plus, they're not "concourse" type
>> >> of
>> >> vehicles like Porsche or Mercedees people show at special events.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
>> >> attachments/20171209/f925806a/attachment.html>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 10
>> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 21:24:38 -0500
>> >> From: Bobsnotch at aol.com
>> >> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [T3] On a 73 T-3 SB fuel injected aut trans pinging .
>> >> Message-ID: <3dcdd0.494dbfb8.475df4e6 at aol.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 12/9/2017 7:55:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> >> fisherfarms at gmail.com writes:
>> >>
>> >> My '69 FI/AT 1600 never seems to vary more than about 50 rpm?
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, but Mike your car gets tuned by Tram when it acts up. It's also
>> >> got
>> >> the more "primitive" FI system, versus what William is dealing with.
>> >>
>> >> Bob 65 Notch w/Factory Sunroof converted to IRS
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <http://lists.vwtype3.org/pipermail/type3-vwtype3.org/
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
>> >> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
>> >> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
>> >> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> End of type3-vwtype3.org Digest, Vol 87, Issue 11
>> >> *************************************************
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>> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
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>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
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>
>
> --
> Eugene, Oregon
>
> http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
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