[T3] TDI "fix"... Defeat Device?

J L Stamey jlstamey at gmail.com
Mon Sep 25 13:41:57 PDT 2017


My wife has had her '11 JSW TDI w DSG "fixed" for about 4 weeks now. At 1st
she said she said it felt a little "neutered" on the way home from the
dealer, kind of weaker off the line, but after a couple days she said it
drives damn near the same. I've drove it 3 or 4 times and it feels
practically the exact same to me too. mpg is down about 1-2 mpgs to about
38-39 avg.
Still waiting word on if a fix will ever be ready for my tdi, '12 passat
6spd, the only tdi's without a fix are the manual '12-'14 passats. :(
the additional 48 mo, 4 year warranty is the main reason we went the fix
route.
good luck Jim

Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:40:33 -0500
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
To: type3 at vwtype3.org
Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?
Message-ID: <59C81841.27556.3CCAA441 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 24 Sep 2017 at 19:20, Daniel K. Du Vall wrote:

> So Jim which did you go with on your TDI?

I haven't done anything yet. I was going to sell it back, but the "fix"
sounds
so appealing that I'm tempted to get that done. I plan to wait to hear more
about people's experience with the fix before commiting.

It's a great car, with terrific fuel mileage. If the early reports are
accurate,
that there's only a small decrease in fuel mileage, I'll go with the "fix."
So far
it sounds reasonable.

--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 4:45 PM, <
type3-vwtype3.org-request at lists.vwtype3.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Defeat Device? (Jim Adney)
>    2. Re: Defeat Device? (Daniel K. Du Vall)
>    3. Re: Defeat Device? (William J)
>    4. Re: Defeat Device? (Jim Adney)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 08:23:13 -0500
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: Type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: [T3] Defeat Device?
> Message-ID: <59C7B1C1.3936.3B3A3E7C at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Many of you are probably aware that I also own a late Jetta Sportwagon
> (modern Squareback, as Dave Hall refers to it) which has one of those
> offending Diesel engines. It's a great car, and I'm very happy with it,
> but now
> VW has offered to either fix or buy back the car.
>
> While watching all the news accounts of this unfortunate action on VW's
> part, I cut out an article that talked about how this TDi (VW Diesel)
> problem
> was not the first time VW had tried to get away with a "Defeat Device" on
> one of their models.
>
> Apparently, one of the very first Defeat Devices caught by the EPA was on
> the '73 FI Squarebacks and Fastbacks. After some Googling this week, I
> found that those came with a temperature switch that disabled the EGR
> (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) below a certain temperature. The EPA required
> VW to remove this switch on future cars sold, but did not require VW to
> remove it on the cars already out there.
>
> This may explain the extra temp switch that's mounted right on the brain of
> my daily driver '73. I'm always surprised to see it there, and I've never
> known
> what it was for. Until this past week, I didn't have a clue what it was
> for,
> because I'd never seen anything that mentioned it. I still need to look
> thru my
> literature to see if I can find it in the EGR circuit somewhere, but I'm
> confident that this explains that switch.
>
> Anyone else out there got one of these? Does your car still have that
> switch
> mounted there?
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 19:20:54 +0000
> From: "Daniel K. Du Vall" <dduvall at 1peter4-10.org>
> To: "type3 at vwtype3.org" <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?
> Message-ID:
>         <BN6PR13MB17293151BBF706E94A244AFD93650 at BN6PR13MB1729.
> namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> So Jim which did you go with on your TDI?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: type3-vwtype3.org [mailto:type3-vwtype3.org-
> bounces at lists.vwtype3.org] On Behalf Of Jim Adney
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:23 AM
> To: Type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: [T3] Defeat Device?
>
> Many of you are probably aware that I also own a late Jetta Sportwagon
> (modern Squareback, as Dave Hall refers to it) which has one of those
> offending Diesel engines. It's a great car, and I'm very happy with it, but
> now VW has offered to either fix or buy back the car.
>
> While watching all the news accounts of this unfortunate action on VW's
> part, I cut out an article that talked about how this TDi (VW Diesel)
> problem was not the first time VW had tried to get away with a "Defeat
> Device" on one of their models.
>
> Apparently, one of the very first Defeat Devices caught by the EPA was on
> the '73 FI Squarebacks and Fastbacks. After some Googling this week, I
> found that those came with a temperature switch that disabled the EGR
> (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) below a certain temperature. The EPA required
> VW to remove this switch on future cars sold, but did not require VW to
> remove it on the cars already out there.
>
> This may explain the extra temp switch that's mounted right on the brain
> of my daily driver '73. I'm always surprised to see it there, and I've
> never known what it was for. Until this past week, I didn't have a clue
> what it was for, because I'd never seen anything that mentioned it. I still
> need to look thru my literature to see if I can find it in the EGR circuit
> somewhere, but I'm confident that this explains that switch.
>
> Anyone else out there got one of these? Does your car still have that
> switch mounted there?
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org To unsubscribe or change
> subscription options, visit:
> http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 12:29:50 -0700
> From: "William J" <catnine09 at dslextreme.com>
> To: <type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?
> Message-ID: <EC76DC7F63FB423BB43A65FED1499C97 at acere355056e8b>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>         reply-type=original
>
> Yes my 73 has the thermal switch on the ECU . In the Bentley it shows it's
> connected the the EGR relay. In the haynes book it shows the drawing of the
> system yet not the controls . It does mention something about air temp and
> certain auto trans conditions that do not allow the EGR to open . I also
> notice that 73 models with fuel injection have a added ground to the
> pressure sensor and ECU . Also the EGR  relay it wired to the TPS and wire
> #
> 14 on the ECU is used and connected to the EGR relay #14 and the TPS wire #
> 14. Perhaps the position of the TPS only allows the EGR relay to open the
> EGR valve and in some way wire #14 on the ECU plays a part . I imagine the
> thermal switch tells the EGR relay what temp to open the valve.
>
> On page 20 fuel system Bentley you can see the TPS #14 and #17 tie into 14
> and 17 on the EGR relay then go to the ECU the Thermal switch in on # 26 on
> the EGR  relay.
>
>  You would not want the EGR open at idle and perhaps not on a very cold day
> .
>
>  I removed the EGR relay and valve on mine since the valve was rusted shut
> and did nothing .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: <Type3 at vwtype3.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:23 AM
> Subject: [T3] Defeat Device?
>
>
> > Many of you are probably aware that I also own a late Jetta Sportwagon
> > (modern Squareback, as Dave Hall refers to it) which has one of those
> > offending Diesel engines. It's a great car, and I'm very happy with it,
> > but now
> > VW has offered to either fix or buy back the car.
> >
> > While watching all the news accounts of this unfortunate action on VW's
> > part, I cut out an article that talked about how this TDi (VW Diesel)
> > problem
> > was not the first time VW had tried to get away with a "Defeat Device" on
> > one of their models.
> >
> > Apparently, one of the very first Defeat Devices caught by the EPA was on
> > the '73 FI Squarebacks and Fastbacks. After some Googling this week, I
> > found that those came with a temperature switch that disabled the EGR
> > (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) below a certain temperature. The EPA required
> > VW to remove this switch on future cars sold, but did not require VW to
> > remove it on the cars already out there.
> >
> > This may explain the extra temp switch that's mounted right on the brain
> > of
> > my daily driver '73. I'm always surprised to see it there, and I've never
> > known
> > what it was for. Until this past week, I didn't have a clue what it was
> > for,
> > because I'd never seen anything that mentioned it. I still need to look
> > thru my
> > literature to see if I can find it in the EGR circuit somewhere, but I'm
> > confident that this explains that switch.
> >
> > Anyone else out there got one of these? Does your car still have that
> > switch
> > mounted there?
> >
> > --
> > *******************************
> > Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > *******************************
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VWType3.Org mailing list - type3 at vwtype3.org
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options, visit:
> > http://lists.vwtype3.org/listinfo.cgi/type3-vwtype3.org
> > If you need more help, contact: gregm at vwtype3.org
> >
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:40:33 -0500
> From: "Jim Adney" <jadney at vwtype3.org>
> To: type3 at vwtype3.org
> Subject: Re: [T3] Defeat Device?
> Message-ID: <59C81841.27556.3CCAA441 at jadney.vwtype3.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 24 Sep 2017 at 19:20, Daniel K. Du Vall wrote:
>
> > So Jim which did you go with on your TDI?
>
> I haven't done anything yet. I was going to sell it back, but the "fix"
> sounds
> so appealing that I'm tempted to get that done. I plan to wait to hear more
> about people's experience with the fix before commiting.
>
> It's a great car, with terrific fuel mileage. If the early reports are
> accurate,
> that there's only a small decrease in fuel mileage, I'll go with the
> "fix." So far
> it sounds reasonable.
>
> --
> *******************************
> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> *******************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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