[T3] Fuel Pump Relay - 69 Fastback

Sun Jul 11 17:23:34 PDT 2021

Please read carefully what I just wrote. It does seem like it's the pump
relay ground that is your issue . Just make certain it's not connected to
the ECU when you ground it , do not under and circumstances ground it
without either removing it from the pump relay connector or cutting it then
ground the end from the relay only .

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 5:07 PM Tim Schiller <schillertim at comcast.net>
wrote:

> Key turn easy. Nothing hangs up. Seems to turn fine
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 11, 2021, at 4:28 PM, William Jahn <willjahn975 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > you can take the pump wire off the pump relay to rule out the pump being
> > the problem , it won't hurt anything. I wouldn' ground the ECU wire. Keep
> > in mind the reason there is a fuse for the pump is in case either the
> pump
> > or the wiring from the pump relay to the pump shorts.
> >
> > I doubt you have faulty relays since you changed both and it made no
> > difference.
> >
> > " I was reading out of a Clymer manual and it discussed pulling the wire
> > from the 85 pin on the pump relay that I believe goes to the ECU #19. It
> > says to ground this wire to Bypass ignition. Says the pump should run
> full
> > time when doing this to test if pump is good " That does not bypass the
> > ignition it just grounds the pump relay coil that pulls the contacts
> closed
> > to send power to the pump though the pump relay contacts. 30 and 87.
> >
> > When you turn the key, what does it feel like? Is it stiff , does it
> > return back when you release the key?
> >
> > The reason I ask is because the ign switch the electrical part when you
> > start the car it powers the starter and supplies power to the fuse box
> and
> > relays , when you release the key it just powers the electrical to run
> the
> > coil and ECU and headlights and so on. Once you release the key all that
> > does is remove power to the starter.
> >
> > All I'm getting is it did work a few times and will not most of the time.
> >
> > The pump relay 30/51 battery voltage great. 86 fine. 85 is the ground
> from
> > the ECU both 86 and 85 are the relay coil 30 and 87 are the contacts. So
> > the power relay is doing it's job or you would not have 13 volts on 30 on
> > the pump relay. You can ground 85 as long as you remove it from the pump
> > relay and use another ground like a jumper . I never checked if 85 had
> > voltage on it because it's a ground and I don't feel it's a good idea to
> > check for voltage there and I don't know how much resistance the coil
> has ,
> > it may read battery voltage I just never did that. To not have voltage on
> > 87 tells me the ground 85 is not grounding via the ECU so the coil is not
> > closing the contact to send voltage from 30 to 87. Try removing 85 from
> the
> > pump relay and ground it. If that works then either ECU is not working
> that
> > ground circuit or there is an issue with that wire from the pump relay to
> > the ECU. The mystery is why it did work a few times.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > '
> >
> >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 3:03 PM Tim Schiller <schillertim at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Without putting a bigger charger on battery, it is at 13V now. There is
> >> also 13V at the power relay.
> >>
> >> Thought I would start at beginning at check pump relay again. There is
> 13V
> >> at the 30 pin. When ignition is turned on, there is also 13V at the 85
> and
> >> 86 pins.
> >>
> >> When I check the 87 pins it is pretty consistent at zero. This is true
> >> with multiple new relays. If I disconnect pump wire, should I get 13V at
> >> the pin? I was just trying to eliminate the pump causing a short.
> >>
> >> The negative braided battery cable has some corrosion. I will need to
> >> order one if I’m to replace.
> >>
> >> Harbor Freight has an ignition bypass to allow starting of car when you
> >> can’t fully turn key. Is this the type of bypass you are referring to?
> >>
> >> I was reading out of a Clymer manual and it discussed pulling the wire
> >> from the 85 pin on the pump relay that I believe goes to the ECU #19. It
> >> says to ground this wire to Bypass ignition. Says the pump should run
> full
> >> time when doing this to test if pump is good. Didn’t want to do until
> >> asking someone much smarter than I.
> >>
> >> I still need to check the ground from the frame to the transmission. I
> >> also need to follow the wire from the starter as suggested. How do you
> >> follow a wire when it disappears inside the harness and is covered with
> the
> >> rest of the wires?
> >>
> >> It seems like the biggest problem is the is no power at the 87 pin on
> pump
> >> relay.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Jul 11, 2021, at 2:03 PM, William Jahn <willjahn975 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> When I checked mine a while back I unplugged the ign coil . Since this
> >>> issue seems to work sometimes and it runs wouldn't it make sense that
> the
> >>> ign switch might be the problem. It seems intermittent to me and they
> >> don't
> >>> last forever and it's a moving part.  We know it's not the relays he
> >>> replaced both with the same result. Seems  since the ign switch could
> be
> >>> the cause. I don't know if 69 has a replacement part.
> >>>
> >>
> https://www.westcoastmetric.com/c-1182978-vw-type-3-1969-vw-type-3-electrical-ignition-switches-harness.html
> >>>
> >>> It's just a thought and after what he has already checked and really
> >> found
> >>> nothing it might be a good place to check . Never tried to bypass the
> ign
> >>> it's possible to do as long as one can use a jumper to pull from the
> >>> starter circuit once it starts . Or for the sake of just a test just
> jump
> >>> the battery hot to the run just to see if the pump and relays have
> >> battery
> >>> voltage could even unplug the coil during the test so it will not
> >> overheat.
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 1:34 PM Jim Adney <jadney at vwtype3.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 11 Jul 2021 at 11:21, William Jahn wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When checking for a voltage drop in one wire to the power relay one
> the
> >>>> pump
> >>>>> relay times out the only draw on the power relay is the ECU .
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, the ignition
> >>>> --
> >>>> *******************************
> >>>> Jim Adney, jadney at vwtype3.org
> >>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >>>> *******************************
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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